Could We Discuss The Podcast In My Post After Listening With Open Minds?

[Damien the Leper]

No gay "gene" has yet been discovered, but they are working on this issue, still. It's pretty clear, from studies done, that gays are ss attracted from a very young age; most from the moment they first have an awareness of their attractions. It is also very clear that this attraction does not go away, even when a person has a strong desire for change.

I was probably 5 or 6 years old when I first realized something was different without ever knowing how to put that 'different' into words.

[USU78]

I was probably 5 or 6 years old when I first realized something was different without ever knowing how to put that 'different' into words.

I daresay nearly everyone ever born felt like that at some point during his childhood.

Feeling "different" doesn't mean squat.

And no matter how many people who acquire/adopt the same new narrative to make their lives cogent to themselves, it doesn't change the TRVTH about SSM and SSA.

[Damien the Leper]

The Apostle Paul would have been among the mob stoning the man found lying with another man.

Don't kid yourself.

He was frying completely different fish than you seem to think.

I'm not and I believe you are incorrect about Paul. Here is why:

“The persons Paul condemns are manifestly not homosexual: what he derogates are homosexual acts committed by apparently heterosexual persons….It is not clear that Paul distinguished in his thoughts or writings between gay persons (in the sense of permanent sexual preference) and heterosexuals who simply engaged in periodic homosexual behavior. It is in fact unlikely that many Jews of his day recognized such a distinction, but it is quite apparent that–whether or not he was aware of their existence–Paul did not discuss gay persons but only homosexual acts committed by heterosexual persons…” (p. 109)

Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality

John Boswell, Yale University Professor of History

Edited August 15, 2012 by Valentinus

[CASteinman]

John Boswell has long preached is own ideas as though they were valid and true. But often (as in this case) they don't have a vapor of a wisp of a smoke of a shadow of support from historical documents and standards, including the Bible.

[Damien the Leper]

You might be right. I do not know. I am pretty sure I was not born with an attraction toward females. Fortunately if it is a choice, I have chosen the path that involves far less other mental health issues and possible choices.

Ouch!

[CASteinman]

Ouch!

I did not mean to glory in it. I was just making an observation. Generally speaking I like gay men and feel badly for the problems they endure. There are specific people that I may not feel quite so positive towards.

[Damien the Leper]

[media=]

IOW: Complete deflection and unworthy of mein lieber Valentin.

Come on! Take a joke...jeez

[Damien the Leper]

Have you ever noticed that wikipedia does not consider itself to be a good source? Moreover that the section you cite has no reference and is even marked as "dubious"?

This cannot be apparent as I have done just that.

This is incorrect. Earlier in the thread TAO provided just such an example (see post #186).

One of the best, logically strong slippery slope arguments on the subject of SSM may be found in the amuci brief filed with the Supreme Court by 15 States that Zeta-Flux mentioned yesterday in another thread.

Besides, as noted earlier, some people on this thread are confusing arguments by analogy with slippery slope arguments.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm not sure that either sufficiently represent the 2nd example. They distinctively represent a bias which is typical of even classical slippery slope arguments and definitely represent an agenda.

[Damien the Leper]

I daresay nearly everyone ever born felt like that at some point during his childhood.

Feeling "different" doesn't mean squat.

And no matter how many people who acquire/adopt the same new narrative to make their lives cogent to themselves, it doesn't change the TRVTH about SSM and SSA.

You're right. But this doesn't discount or invalidate my own experience. It is always, of course, about individual experience and not simply generalizing or ignorantly lumping people into groups to demonstrate a statistic.

[USU78]

I'm not and I believe you are incorrect about Paul. Here is why:

A more presentist argument I haven't seen in a week of hanging around this here board.

Saul/Paul could no more have made the SSM/SSA distinction cogent to himself no matter how long he tried than I can be compelled not to get my gag on when I smell broccoli boiling.

The modern taxonomy, born of fraud by Kinsey, was unknown then.

[USU78]

You're right. But this doesn't discount or invalidate my own experience. It is always, of course, about individual experience and not simply generalizing or ignorantly lumping people into groups to demonstrate a statistic.

Fair 'nuff.

You know . . . you're so much easier to engage than some who have, in the past, frequented this board. Never a moment of unpleasantness. Never anything nasty.

Mazel tov to you, good sir!

[CASteinman]

I'm not sure that either sufficiently represent the 2nd example. They distinctively represent a bias which is typical of even classical slippery slope arguments and definitely represent an agenda.

Don't misunderstand me... I definitely have an agenda. My agenda is to promote the Gospel and to advocate for adherence to Gospel standards -- even by non-members.

This, however, has nothing to do with the fact that the concept of ceteris paribus combined with unobjective or activist interpretations fo the law is the mechanism by which slippery slope occurs in the US.

Edited August 15, 2012 by CASteinman

[ERayR]

Why not? Didn't JS marry a 14 year old? If the prophet of the Restoration can do it then so can we.

I knew that would be the first response. An inanity. Couldn't you do better.

Edited August 15, 2012 by ERayR

[wenglund]

I daresay nearly everyone ever born felt like that at some point during his childhood.

I have long felt like I am "different" even as an adult--though not in terms of sexual attraction.

I am not sure how odd it was, but I had no idea about sexual attraction until late in junior high, and even then it wasn't very pronounced. Before then my primary social attraction was more in relation to whether a person liked to do the same things I did--play baseball, ride bikes, dig dirt forts, shoot toy guns, etc. Since girls that age by and large weren't into those kinds of things, they weren't attractive to me, and I even considered them as though they were from another planet--one with cooties. LOL

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Damien the Leper]

John Boswell has long preached is own ideas as though they were valid and true. But often (as in this case) they don't have a vapor of a wisp of a smoke of a shadow of support from historical documents and standards, including the Bible.

CFR concerning these documents and standards. The Bible is not recognized as a history book in the same sense as a book used to teach history in a college setting. You seem to be overstating your case, CA. I have taken sever anthropology and sociology courses in college and none seem to propose what you do.

[Damien the Leper]

A more presentist argument I haven't seen in a week of hanging around this here board.

Saul/Paul could no more have made the SSM/SSA distinction cogent to himself no matter how long he tried than I can be compelled not to get my gag on when I smell broccoli boiling.

The modern taxonomy, born of fraud by Kinsey, was unknown then.

This is not a valid response to what Boswell states.

[CASteinman]

CFR concerning these documents and standards. The Bible is not recognized as a history book in the same sense as a book used to teach history in a college setting. You seem to be overstating your case, CA. I have taken sever anthropology and sociology courses in college and none seem to propose what you do.

Wait a minute.. You are asking for a reference on a source that I claim does not exist?

How exactly does someone produce such a thing?

[wenglund]

I'm not sure that either sufficiently represent the 2nd example. They distinctively represent a bias which is typical of even classical slippery slope arguments and definitely represent an agenda.

I see it differently. Either way, they are not fallacious, but warranted.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Damien the Leper]

Fair 'nuff.

You know . . . you're so much easier to engage than some who have, in the past, frequented this board. Never a moment of unpleasantness. Never anything nasty.

Mazel tov to you, good sir!

Thank you sir. But I can only accept your compliments limitedly. I have in the past rewarded bitter sarcasm with with bitter sarcasm. I have not always been kind.

Thank you nonetheless.

[Damien the Leper]

I knew that would be the first response. An inanity. Couldn't you do better.

Holy cow! It wasn't a shot...it was a joke. JS wouldn't be dumb enough as prophet to marry a 14 year old girl. We know this.

[ERayR]

Holy cow! It wasn't a shot...it was a joke. JS wouldn't be dumb enough as prophet to marry a 14 year old girl. We know this.

Sorry but you really should know better than to throw a bomb into an ammunition dump.

Edited August 15, 2012 by ERayR

[Damien the Leper]

Wait a minute.. You are asking for a reference on a source that I claim does not exist?

How exactly does someone produce such a thing?

From you:

But often (as in this case) they don't have a vapor of a wisp of a smoke of a shadow of support from historical documents and standards, including the Bible.

I would like source references for what I have bolded and underlined above. You made a claim and now you need to support it.

[Damien the Leper]

I see it differently. Either way, they are not fallacious, but warranted.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I guess if you say so...

[CASteinman]

I would like source references for what I have bolded and underlined above. You made a claim and now you need to support it.

OK... references:

Bible-- the whole thing

The Didache

The epistles of Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp.

The book of Thomas

The Protoevangelon of James

The Infancy of Christ

The Acts of Paul and Thecla

The histories of Irenaeus

The Bhagavad Gita

The Koran

The Kojiki

.....

Edited August 15, 2012 by CASteinman

[Damien the Leper]

OK... references:

Bible-- the whole thing

The Didache

The epistles of Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp.

The book of Thomas

The Protoevangelon of James

The Infancy of Christ

The Acts of Paul and Thecla

The histories of Irenaeus

The Bhagavad Gita

The Koran

The Kojiki

.....

What did I say about the Bible being conflated with a history textbook? Perhaps I should extend it to all scripture. What I also find odd is that you would cite scripture that is not accepted by the LDS church.