Calm Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 If you can fake sincerity you've got it made!But what is the "it" you've made? Not much in my view, whatever "it" is.
supersnail Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 With health issues, I am thinking of mental and emotional disorders or states that may interfere with feeling the Spirit or interpreting the Spirit correctly.A lot of hypothetical situations are possible. Can Moroni 10:4 be accepted as a more or less accurate generalization?I mean, how many people with a serious mental condition--for whom reading the Book of Mormon is not an academic task or something they are being prodded to do by others--are really going to read all of the BoM up to Moroni 10:4 in the first place and then not have a positive response to it? I doubt it would be many.
supersnail Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Maybe it is worth pointing out that Moroni 10:4 is addressed to "you." It is not about hypothetical individuals, with various problems, spoken of in the third person.I think it's addressed to the person reading the words. It applies to the person reading it and who has read everything previous. If a reader for some reason or another, such as a learning disability, doesn't understand the words of Moroni 10:4 or what "these things" refers to, the words are meaningless for him or her. How can the promise, and implied self-reflection if one doesn't find the BoM to be true, apply to someone who receives a garbled message?It is a message for you and for you alone. It's a message for me, too, but only you can know what is in your heart of hearts and the full meaning of Moroni 10:4.
Calm Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) How can the promise, and implied self-reflection if one doesn't find the BoM to be true, apply to someone who receives a garbled message?It is a message for you and for you alone. It's a message for me, too, but only you can know what is in your heart of hearts and the full meaning of Moroni 10:4.Good point (out of rep points sorry). For three years I was on a medication that prevented me from being aware of the Spirit. I got some intellectual teaching out of my readings of the scriptures during that time, but there was little sense of anything telling me 'this is true' save my memory of past experiences. At the time, I had a choice to trust those past experiences or just considered them some sort of anomaly, due to the totality of the experiences I chose to trust them....and eventually I was able to find ways the Spirit was communicating with me outside the usual method. It was a very instructive three years especially when the veil was removed when I stopped taking the medication and I realized the full impact of what I had been missing. It has made me much more sympathetic and understanding with others who say they just can't feel it and yet they believe they are doing everything they have been told to do in order to invite the Spirit. Sometimes it just doesn't happen through no fault of the individuals involved, surely the doctors prescribing the drug for me thought they were doing the right thing, making my life better than the reality of giving me what later amounted to a significant physical handicap due to misdiagnosis and the giving of a drug that actually worsen a genetic condition instead of treating it. So I see no blame to attach to anyone save the imperfect mortal world we live in and if for some reason I may have acquired a spiritual handicap or something else, the Lord will judge me by those conditions, not as if I was a perfect specimen of mortal woman in brain, body and soul.And there is nothing unique to me that I would get special treatment, this is the gift of equality that the Lord gives us all---we are equally judged because we are judged against ourselves, our own potentials and what we do with that and not against some ideal standard or what the next guy is doing or even the best of the best. Edited July 29, 2012 by calmoriah 4
Carborendum Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Craig,Four conditions, one promise.1) After you have received these things (a knowledge and understanding of the BoM).2) Sincerity.3) REAL intent.4) Faith in Christ.ALL FOUR conditions must be met to achieve the single promise.The truth will be manifest BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST.So, ask yourself:1) Have I really given the BoM a chance? How about the tenets of the faith?2) Am I a sincere seeker of the truth? Am I asking for my own version of the truth? Or what the Lord will tell me is true?3) Is it my full intention to adhere to the faith completely? Lamoni "I will give up all my sins to know thee". Not just about sins, but your heart, might, mind, and strength. Can you really make a commitment like that?4) Have I sought out the application of Christ's atonement in my own life and in the life of my family? Do I truly believe all that He has to offer me?5) Am I in a position to honestly say that I am fully capable of feeling and recognizing the Spirit? Yes, I truly believe that the Spirit may be manifest to many people, and they have know way of either feeling or recognizing it. It may be because no one has taught them. And that is a real shame.One other note. I do believe that there are many good, sincere, faithful, well meaning people out there who will never receive a confirmation from the Spirit about the truth of this faith, simply because they were not meant to be LDS. Alexander Doniphan comes to mind. They just had a different mission in this life, and possibly in eternity. But I have difficulty believing the same for those who have been faithful members of the Church for many years AND have once received a testimony. This is just my personal belief on the matter.If you've already received a testimony, then you can obviously feel and recognize the Spirit. So, that leaves the rest of the criteria. And, of course, only the Lord really knows the truth of that. That's why He will be the judge.I never really knew you, but I'm saddened by your departure. May God hold you in the palm of His hand. Edited July 29, 2012 by Carborendum
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