Hamilton Porter Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 I've bought a boatload of commentaries: Oxford, Eerdmans, IVP Background, and Jerome.I don't read LDS Bible commentaries because they're not as sexy. I read LDS authors for BOM/church history.
rameumptom Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 Many scholars believe them to be outliers when it comes to their scholarship. They try to break new ground, which makes many traditional Bible scholars feel uncomfortable, and many are still unconvinced in the interpretation. For example, the concept of early Judaism having multiple gods, and a consort for God's wife, is still not accepted by many traditional Bible scholars.RamQuestion: Aren't Margaret Barker, Levenson, or NB Wright scholars? Why does there work have to be rejected?
ERayR Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 Many scholars believe them to be outliers when it comes to their scholarship. They try to break new ground, which makes many traditional Bible scholars feel uncomfortable, and many are still unconvinced in the interpretation. For example, the concept of early Judaism having multiple gods, and a consort for God's wife, is still not accepted by many traditional Bible scholars.RamIt has always been the fate of those who do not tow the party line to be labeled heretics. That does not, however, answer my question. Are they or are they not scholars?
Tacenda Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 I believe reading the scriptures is very important. Equally important, however, is the discussion and sharing of insights. As I've shared on many occasions, the gospel is a deep ocean of doctrine, yet most only skip stones across the top of it.I would encourage attending a bible class with others. Tell them that you want to understand the Bible in the way they do, so as to shed greater light on it for you. It will give you the opportunity to see how others read those same verses you do, and perhaps help you see alternative readings. Most LDS cannot see how other Christians can believe the Trinity, when they believe they clearly see it in the writings. You do not have to believe exactly in the Trinity in order to appreciate their reading of it. It has often been in discussing such things with others that I see the scriptures in new ways that have helped me out.I found that I began learning about the scriptures when I gave less attention to church correlation (it loves to skip stones) and study scholarly papers and books from non-LDS. I did not agree with all of their insights. Nor do I think they equally are sharp in their arguments. But there are many that have truly helped me in understanding concepts like grace and atonement. I now have a very different view of these than when I joined the Church at 16, under the tutelage of those that quoted Mormon Doctrine.And it is this reason I really enjoyed FARMS publications over the years. It often forced me to think in new ways regarding the scriptures and history. The Limited Geography Theory opened up new ways to read and understand the Book of Mormon, for example. I fully embrace the Documentary Hypothesis, though many LDS are wary of it. Yet it helps me see the BoM and Bible in ways that most LDS cannot. These are priceless things. I think that FARMS was very useful to me, not only in apologetics, but in understanding LDS scripture. I am unsure how a revamped MSR focused on secular scholarship will help much, except to share with LDS the beliefs of scholars from other religious traditions. With Kerry, I do not see how they will easily be able to defend a LDS reading of the scriptures, but will likely end up finding that they either have to return to an LDS-focused method, or accept that they will be writing things that LDS do not believe in.RamI'm going to take that encouragement and run with it! I'll return and report, thank you Ram!
Calm Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) First my experience, from early in my life, with bible study led by other christian denominations is that they stress a lot that is not compatible with LDS theology. I found that for me it was better to get a good commentary from LDS authors and study on my own.......Church time only study of the scriptures just isn't enough time. To really study you must study on your own. If you were to go to that Bible study class you would commit a certain amount of time to it. Why not a good self study, committing a like amount of time?Good luck in your studies.A possible choice for Tacenda: http://feastupontheword.org/Site:NTFootnotes Edited June 25, 2012 by calmoriah
Calm Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) I'm going to take that encouragement and run with it! I'll return and report, thank you Ram!Just don't let yourself be intimidated by others' beliefs into letting your own go in preference for theirs. I love studying others' beliefs not only to simply learn of them, but because of the light that is reflected back upon mine that allows me to study my own that much more effectively. I agree with everything Ram has said, the experience is the same with me (and is one of the reasons I love this board as people present a variety of beliefs for me to consider, even among LDS), but it can be overwhelming if one is not well grounded in one's own beliefs first. So if I were doing what you are considering, I would study as ERayR suggested on my own from an LDS POV at the same time as studying with others from a different perspective so I don't lose my footing and end up more confused rather than less. Kevin Barney, who did the NT footnotes, is a wonderful man as well as being very informed and if you have any questions for him, you can just write FAIR and he will likely respond very quickly. And you will probably get others responding as well (and if anyone comes across as patronizing or condemning let me know and I will go whack them on the side of the head a few times as that is not the way it is supposed to be done). There are also a number of women who can answer your questions from a women's POV, just ask for them particularly.PS: who cares if your current inexperience makes them think LDS are inexperienced or something else in scripture study, if you are kind and thoughtful and want to learn, what better representative of LDS could we want? Edited June 25, 2012 by calmoriah 1
Tacenda Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 Just don't let yourself be intimidated by others' beliefs into letting your own go in preference for theirs. I love studying others' beliefs not only to simply learn of them, but because of the light that is reflected back upon mine that allows me to study my own that much more effectively. I agree with everything Ram has said, the experience is the same with me (and is one of the reasons I love this board as people present a variety of beliefs for me to consider, even among LDS), but it can be overwhelming if one is not well grounded in one's own beliefs first. So if I were doing what you are considering, I would study as ERayR suggested on my own from an LDS POV at the same time as studying with others from a different perspective so I don't lose my footing and end up more confused rather than less. Kevin Barney, who did the NT footnotes, is a wonderful man as well as being very informed and if you have any questions for him, you can just write FAIR and he will likely respond very quickly. And you will probably get others responding as well (and if anyone comes across as patronizing or condemning let me know and I will go whack them on the side of the head a few times as that is not the way it is supposed to be done). There are also a number of women who can answer your questions from a women's POV, just ask for them particularly.PS: who cares if your current inexperience makes them think LDS are inexperienced or something else in scripture study, if you are kind and thoughtful and want to learn, what better representative of LDS could we want?I'm blown away at how you and others are so open about this. Like I said in another post, I was chastised for wanting to go to a bible study class. It's so refreshing to hear from you vs. the close minded people I occasionally associate with. Now I just need to walk the talk! And thank you for this website...http://feastupontheword.org/Site:NTFootnotes I'll check it out.
Pahoran Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 From what I've tried to piece together from all the different posts, it seems that people have concluded that what are considered liberal or unorthodox Mormons, typified by John Dehlin, have taken control of the MI, which for them is seen as a bad thing as they are apostates and wolves in sheep's clothing and will pander to anti-Mormons in the publications. I could be way off here, so if anyone believes this I would appreciate it if they would confirm that this is their view. I don't think we will have a useful discussion unless we are all clear about what we think the significance is of the different approach the MI has decided to take in their publications.The issue as I see it is not that the new MI is going to be advancing fringe-Mormon or NOM causes. Rather it is that it will no longer be defending the Church of Jesus Christ, or the faith of the Latter-day Saints, but instead will produce the same kinds of articles that other BYU periodicals already produce. IOW, it doesn't seem like it's being taken over by evil people, but by good people who will do nothing as regards defending the faith, an endeavour they evidently see as either pointless or distasteful, or both.Regards,Pahoran
Calm Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Closemindedness is most often, imo, based on fear/insecurity, perhaps fear of the unknown, but also it could be fear of having to just do the work when finding out something new because you feel challenged by it and you don't want to think less of yourself which you might if you just ignored it rather than making the effort to study. They may be fearful that you may end up replacing studying in the LDS faith with the bible studying with others not of our faith. And that can be a concern, I have seen a few cases where people were so happy to find others who were willing to talk and work with them as well as being flattered by the attention these others were giving them, they set aside their own beliefs and embraced the others....but once they left the influence of those others, they felt lost and adrift and more alone than ever.There is nothing wrong with telling someone 'thank you for your ideas, they will help me consider my choices' and then having considered them for the time they deserve (which may be not much longer than the moment they were spoken), go do what the Spirit commands or suggests or hints for you to do. You don't have to tell people who are not receptive your thought processes or justify your decisions to them or even tell them what your decisions are if it is not their stewardship or if they are not fulfilling their stewardship in a proper way. Following the Spirit will allow us to overcome our fears (and others' fears) which are often just a temptation to prevent us from moving further down the path on our way to seek the Lord.If you are going to study with those who are not LDS, you need to make sure you are comfortable enough in your own self to say "thanks, but no thanks" if only in your mind, not out loud. Being overly concerned about what others think would be setting up your own personal minefield when it comes to spiritual studying and exploration. There is only one person you need to worry about what he thinks and that is the Lord. If you feel troubled by the Spirit, that is the time to step back and reevaluate your choice. Otherwise, try not to let the gadflys annoy or distract you too much. Edited June 25, 2012 by calmoriah
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