1 Corinthians 11:3

[TruthSeeker24]

1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

What's your view on this? Our modern day family government has become Democratic, as opposed to Patriarchal. Do you agree? Is that good or bad? What do you think?

[thesometimesaint]

TruthSeeker24:

It is more like a Ward. The Bishop leads, but only a fool doesn't listen to his counselors.

[TruthSeeker24]

TruthSeeker24:

It is more like a Ward. The Bishop leads, but only a fool doesn't listen to his counselors.

Well said! But what's the line? Does the Bishop (or Husband) have the right to go against the wife's counsel if he disagrees with it?

[Nominee]

In the LDS faith it is Patriarchal. And I would say that the fact that it is builds my testimony. I know that I am a member of the true church of God when the church is organized according to God, his prophets, and the holy scriptures (word of God). I am so grateful for the joy and peace that adherence to the patriarchal order brings into my life. Of course, in the world, people like to pick and choose which parts of God's way they like. That doesn't work so well. It is all or nothing. Righteous men and women are required for a patriarchal order to work the way God intended. When men and women cherish and honor each other, recognizing the unique qualities that exist in their companions ~ there is NO better way to live. But that's a given as it is God's way!

[CV75]

1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

What's your view on this? Our modern day family government has become Democratic, as opposed to Patriarchal. Do you agree? Is that good or bad? What do you think?

Great article in this month's Ensign on the subject!

[TruthSeeker24]

Great article in this month's Ensign on the subject!

Unfortunately, I don't have a subscription to that magazine.

[Nominee]

"Your wife is your equal. In marriage neither partner is superior nor inferior to the other. You walk side by side as a son and a daughter of God. She is not to be demeaned or insulted but should be respected and loved. Said President Gordon B. Hinckley: “Any man in this Church who … exercises unrighteous dominion over [his wife] is unworthy to hold the priesthood. Though he may have been ordained, the heavens will withdraw, the Spirit of the Lord will be grieved, and it will be amen to the authority of the priesthood of that man."

AWESOME TALK BY PRESIDENT MONSON :

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/04/priesthood-power?lang=eng&query=unrighteous+dominion

[TruthSeeker24]

"Your wife is your equal. In marriage neither partner is superior nor inferior to the other. You walk side by side as a son and a daughter of God. She is not to be demeaned or insulted but should be respected and loved. Said President Gordon B. Hinckley: “Any man in this Church who … exercises unrighteous dominion over [his wife] is unworthy to hold the priesthood. Though he may have been ordained, the heavens will withdraw, the Spirit of the Lord will be grieved, and it will be amen to the authority of the priesthood of that man."

AWESOME TALK BY PRESIDENT MONSON :

http://www.lds.org/g...hteous dominion

Equal in worth? Or Equal in authority? It's authority that I'm wanting to address here.

[Nominee]

Great article in this month's Ensign on the subject!

Which one? I can post the link!

There is this one:

http://www.lds.org/liahona/2012/06/counseling-together-in-marriage?lang=eng&query=counseling+together+marriage,+randy+keyes

[thesometimesaint]

TruthSeeker24:

D&C121:41

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

[Nominee]

Equal in worth? Or Equal in authority? It's authority that I'm wanting to address here.

Hmmm. Difficult to answer in type alone so I pray the Spirit is with me.

Equal in all BUT you, as the husband and head of the family, will be held accountable for the guidance given and the direction that you lead your family in. If you are BOTH seeking guidance from the Lord, the differences you may have can be resolved without one "going against" the other. The statement, after all is not just about the wife's place in regards to the husband's but also the husband's place in regards to God.

[Nominee]

TruthSeeker24:

D&C121:41

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

Excellent. Thank you for sharing.

[TruthSeeker24]

TruthSeeker24:

D&C121:41

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

I totally agree! However, I don't agree that this verse excludes the scenerio of the husband making a decision contrary to those under him in authority. My interpretation of this verse is that its saying we should always make our decisions out of love, and that we should be patient at all times. Not that we should wait until everyone agrees, because at times, that simply may not happen.

Which one? I can post the link!

There is this one:

http://www.lds.org/l...ge, randy keyes

How is the husband the head then? Whats the point of the husband being the head of his family when the wife and husband must agree on everything? What was the point of Christ teaching that man is the head of the woman?

[TruthSeeker24]

Hmmm. Difficult to answer in type alone so I pray the Spirit is with me.

Equal in all BUT you, as the husband and head of the family, will be held accountable for the guidance given and the direction that you lead your family in. If you are BOTH seeking guidance from the Lord, the differences you may have can be resolved without one "going against" the other. The statement, after all is not just about the wife's place in regards to the husband's but also the husband's place in regards to God.

Well said! I agree!

[Thinking]

I read something somewhere, sometime.

"The man may be the head of the family, but the woman is the neck -- and she can turn the head any way she wants!"

[TruthSeeker24]

I read something somewhere, sometime.

"The man may be the head of the family, but the woman is the neck -- and she can turn the head any way she wants!"

I think that's from the movie, "My Big Fat Greek Wedding." Very funny lol, though I strongly disagree lol. Unless the man is a push-over, heaven forbid that ever be the case lol.

Edited June 4, 2012 by TruthSeeker24

[Nominee]

How is the husband the head then? Whats the point of the husband being the head of his family when the wife and husband must agree on everything? What was the point of Christ teaching that man is the head of the woman?

In the article I linked from this month's Ensign there is a subsection titled Principle 3: Presiding Righteously , In the Home. This is the first sentence in that paragraph: "The husband's patriarchal duty as one who presides in the home is not to rule over others but to ensure that the marriage and the family prosper."

edit: If you and your wife are both making righteous choices and adhering to the will of God, then it goes without saying that there shouldn't be a whole lot to disagree about. Remove any authority from the picture and simply ask yourself, which of our two differing opinions is closer to the principles of the gospel? It really doesn't matter who the opinion belongs to, what matters is that your decision as head of household leads your family down the righteous path home.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Nominee

[TruthSeeker24]

In the article I linked from this month's Ensign there is a subsection titled Principle 3: Presiding Righteously , In the Home. This is the first sentence in that paragraph: "The husband's patriarchal duty as one who presides in the home is not to rule over others but to ensure that the marriage and the family prosper."

So realistically speaking then, the husband doesn't preside at all, and all decisions must pass by the wife as well?

[Nominee]

So realistically speaking then, the husband doesn't preside at all, and all decisions must pass by the wife as well?

Your definition of preside is skewed, that's all. To preside does not mean to be the boss. It means to be responsible for. Not the same thing. You are responsible for your wife's happiness. Your reward is your happy wife.

In the Home

The husband’s patriarchal duty as one who presides in the home is not to rule over others but to ensure that the marriage and the family prosper. President David O. McKay (1873–1970) explained that one day every man will have a personal priesthood interview with the Savior: “First, He will request an accountability report about your relationship with your wife. Have you been actively engaged in making her happy and ensuring that her needs have been met as an individual?”¹⁰

The husband is accountable for growth and happiness in his marriage, but this accountability does not give him authority over his wife. Both are in charge of the marriage. In righteous marriage councils both spouses share a set of virtues that when applied help them focus on each other.

We can study some of these virtues in Doctrine and Covenants 121:41: “No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned.”

We cannot use the priesthood to assert power and influence. Therefore, we can’t use unrighteous means to establish dominance in marriage. True power comes only when we work together in righteousness and so qualify for blessings from the Lord.

[TruthSeeker24]

Your definition of preside is skewed, that's all. To preside does not mean to be the boss. It means to be responsible for. Not the same thing. You are responsible for your wife's happiness. Your reward is your happy wife.

In the Home

The husband’s patriarchal duty as one who presides in the home is not to rule over others but to ensure that the marriage and the family prosper. President David O. McKay (1873–1970) explained that one day every man will have a personal priesthood interview with the Savior: “First, He will request an accountability report about your relationship with your wife. Have you been actively engaged in making her happy and ensuring that her needs have been met as an individual?”¹⁰

The husband is accountable for growth and happiness in his marriage, but this accountability does not give him authority over his wife. Both are in charge of the marriage. In righteous marriage councils both spouses share a set of virtues that when applied help them focus on each other.

We can study some of these virtues in Doctrine and Covenants 121:41: “No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned.”

We cannot use the priesthood to assert power and influence. Therefore, we can’t use unrighteous means to establish dominance in marriage. True power comes only when we work together in righteousness and so qualify for blessings from the Lord.

I agree in trying to come to terms as best we can, and that the husband should use all diligence, patience, love, and meekness to make it so. However, I also believe the husband has the right and duty to make decisions at times that run contrary to the wife's wishes. Sometimes, as a leader, making such decisions becomes necessary. So equal in worth? Yes, I agree. But equal in authority? No, I don't agree with that. Look at this excerpt by Charles W. Penrose entitled "Family Government."

"Much as it has been disputed by agitators for “women’s rights”, man as a sex, by reason of greater physical and mental strength, is placed by nature above the woman in the scale of being. And Scripture says, “Man is the head of the woman, even as Christ is the head of the Church, and he is the savior of the body.” When the wife rules the husband, as is too frequently the case of the world—the man submitting, as he thinks, for the sake of peace, or through not assuming his proper position at the first—the order of nature and of God is overturned, man is degraded, and the whole household is hindered from receiving the full blessings of heaven, and from progressing to that exalted position that the Great Father has designed for those who live according to the true principles of family government."

[thesometimesaint]

TruthSeeker24:

I can't imagine going against the explicit wishes of my wife. We've been married for 40 and we've had our share of disagreements, but the vast majority of decisions are made by both of us agreeing.

[Nominee]

I agree in trying to come to terms as best we can, and that the husband should use all diligence, patience, love, and meekness to make it so. However, I also believe the husband has the right and duty to make decisions at times that run contrary to the wife's wishes. Sometimes, as a leader, making such decisions becomes necessary. So equal in worth? Yes, I agree. But equal in authority? No, I don't agree with that. Look at this excerpt by Charles W. Penrose entitled "Family Government."

"Much as it has been disputed by agitators for “women’s rights”, man as a sex, by reason of greater physical and mental strength, is placed by nature above the woman in the scale of being. And Scripture says, “Man is the head of the woman, even as Christ is the head of the Church, and he is the savior of the body.” When the wife rules the husband, as is too frequently the case of the world—the man submitting, as he thinks, for the sake of peace, or through not assuming his proper position at the first—the order of nature and of God is overturned, man is degraded, and the whole household is hindered from receiving the full blessings of heaven, and from progressing to that exalted position that the Great Father has designed for those who live according to the true principles of family government."

This is an apostle of God and he is not ENTIRELY wrong; however, more modern revelation has added light and clarity to the subject and left this quote outdated.

The bottom line, you do not have rule over your wife in the eyes of God. Although, you are responsible for her happiness and prosperity in the eyes of God. So ask yourself, if you do as you please regardless of your wife is she happy? Will your marriage prosper?

[TruthSeeker24]

This is an apostle of God and he is not ENTIRELY wrong; however, more modern revelation has added light and clarity to the subject and left this quote outdated.

The bottom line, you do not have rule over your wife in the eyes of God. Although, you are responsible for her happiness and prosperity in the eyes of God. So ask yourself, if you do as you please regardless of your wife is she happy? Will your marriage prosper?

Of course not. Again, please understand that I DO agree with striving to do all things in harmony and to exhaust all efforts at making the wife happy and content. I simply think that in times when the two parties cannot come to an agreement, it is the husbands duty to make the final call, and it is the wife's duty to obey that call.

[CV75]

Unfortunately, I don't have a subscription to that magazine.

Look at it online at lds.org. or it is probably in the Liahona as well.

[thesometimesaint]

Or it just gets tabled until more information becomes available.