Authority--Not Just An Rcc And Lds Thing Anymore?

[Vex]

So I recently have been exposed to this gem and thought I'd share:

Where was the true church of God during these Dark Ages?

On the Scottish Island of Iona, in 563 AD, a man named Columba started a Bible College. For the next 700 years, this was the source of much of the non-Catholic, evangelical Bible teaching through those centuries of the Dark and Middle Ages. The students of this college were called “Culdees”, which means “certain stranger”. The Culdees were a secret society, and the remnant of the true Christian faith was kept alive by these men during the many centuries that led up to the Protestant Reformation.

In fact, the first man to be called a “Culdee” was Joseph of Aremethia. The Bible tells us that Joseph of Aremethia gave up his tomb for Jesus. Tradition tells us that he was actually the Uncle of the Virgin Mary, and therefore the Great-Uncle (or “half-Uncle” at least) of Jesus. It is also believed that Joseph of Aremethia traveled to the British Isles shortly after the resurrection of Christ, and built the first Christian Church above ground there. Tradition also tells us that Jesus may have spent much of his young adult life (between 13 and 30) traveling the world with his Great Uncle Joseph… though the Bible is silent on these years in the life of Jesus.

In the late 1300’s, the secret society of Culdees chose John Wycliffe to lead the world out of the Dark Ages. Wycliffe has been called the “Morning Star of the Reformation”. That Protestant Reformation was about one thing: getting the Word of God back into the hands of the masses in their own native language, so that the corrupt church would be exposed and the message of salvation in Christ alone, by scripture alone, through faith alone would be proclaimed again.

http://www.greatsite...eformation.html

Emphasis my own.

Note that this is the same individual who claimed to drive away the Loch Ness Monster.

http://www.history.c...ch-ness-monster

http://en.wikipedia....27s_Miracles.29

Are there any EVs here that subscribe to this belief, and if so how do you support this assertion through the scriptures? Is there any oral history associated with this or do only select EV branches adhere to such things?

Along those same lines how do LDS and RCC individuals take this information? Do you find issue with it in any specifics?

Edited March 26, 2012 by Vex

[Saints Alive]

I don’t necessarily take issue with any of it. I do find it interesting (if true) that there is a link between Jesus, John Wycliffe and the bible for the common man, Joseph Smiths reading of a verse in the bible which lead to the restoration. It wouldn’t be too hard to see Gods guiding hand in these individuals.

[3DOP]

I am not quite convinced that Columba was the shining light of Evangelical distinctives that is being claimed of him. There seems to be much more evidence that St. Columba was an Irish Catholic priest, who founded a monastery...er...Bible School...on the island of Iona. He went to Mass, Confession, recited the Divine Office, and prayed for the dead (Note in the rule where his monks sing the "office for the dead" fervently). His feast day is June 9th.

The Rule of St. Columba is extant. Monks are always governed by a particular rule, usually of their founder which is modelled for the particular charism of the community. Be the judge as to whether this sounds more like an Evangelical Bible School or a rule for observation by Catholic monks: http://www.fordham.e...olumba-rule.asp

Here is a brief history of his life different from that which is being claimed: http://www.ewtn.com/...ary/columba.htm

Edited March 26, 2012 by 3DOP

[Pahoran]

I am not quite convinced that Columba was the shining light of Evangelical distinctives that is being claimed of him. There seems to be much more evidence that St. Columba was an Irish Catholic priest,

Yes, but don't tell that to the Scots. Think of all the Malcolms, Calums and so forth who'd rush out to change their names...

...Almost as many as all the Patricks, Padraigs etc. in Ireland who'd be flooding the Post Office looking for deed poll forms if ever they found out St. Paddy was English!

Actually our EV informant doesn't seem to be all that well-informed. The old "Trail of Blood" theory has been around for quite a while, and it's never been more than a theory.

And I was a little amused to see them argue that Joseph of Arimathea was Jesus' half-uncle. Evidently they never quite worked out that an uncle always comes from only one side of the family.

Regards,

Pahoran

[The Nehor]

Translation: I read about this interesting historical figure on the internet and now I can say with authority and certainty that he is one of us proving we were right all along.

See also: Jesus being remade as the champion of every new fad in existence, Plato being made to agree with every philosophy, and the people who claim that Ezekiel saw flying saucers proving that we are being visited.

[Vex]

Translation: I read about this interesting historical figure on the internet and now I can say with authority and certainty that he is one of us proving we were right all along.

See also: Jesus being remade as the champion of every new fad in existence, Plato being made to agree with every philosophy, and the people who claim that Ezekiel saw flying saucers proving that we are being visited.

Oh how I wish it played out like that... but alas it did not. I'm hoping to lure the individual here to continue the discussion (rather than continuing it on the car forum it currently is progressing on); but I get the sneaking suspicion that if he did make it over here he would be banned for violation of the rules during the course of discussion.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Vex

[3DOP]

Hi Vex.

I never did answer the question you were really asking about. Of course I think the historical claims are untenable. But I truly am pleased that they see the need for some kind of continuity. If their history is cracked, their thinking is good.They are correctly uncomfortable with not being able to trace themselves through history. I started a church once. I asked a couple of fellow ministers about the facf that I was unordained. They didn't think it mattered. Those who come up with crazy historical theories are at least in agreement that we need continuity.

After I had established my church, as time went on, the strongest biblical argument for LDS/Catholic authority seemed to me to be the laying on of hands for ministers in the book of Acts and references to it in St. Paul's letters. This seems to me to imply that no one can be a minister/priest/pastor without being given that authority. After seven years of Protestant ministry, and three years of looking around, I became Catholic in 1995. LDS claims ranked high among the reasons it took three years. If you guys were out of the way, it would have been a lot easier!

Regards,

3DOP

[Vex]

Hi Vex.

I never did answer the question you were really asking about. Of course I think the historical claims are untenable. But I truly am pleased that they see the need for some kind of continuity. If their history is cracked, their thinking is good.They are correctly uncomfortable with not being able to trace themselves through history. I started a church once. I asked a couple of fellow ministers about the facf that I was unordained. They didn't think it mattered. Those who come up with crazy historical theories are at least in agreement that we need continuity.

After I had established my church, as time went on, the strongest biblical argument for LDS/Catholic authority seemed to me to be the laying on of hands for ministers in the book of Acts and references to it in St. Paul's letters. This seems to me to imply that no one can be a minister/priest/pastor without being given that authority. After seven years of Protestant ministry, and three years of looking around, I became Catholic in 1995. LDS claims ranked high among the reasons it took three years. If you guys were out of the way, it would have been a lot easier!

Regards,

3DOP

For some reason I thought you were LDS . I'll have to remember to come ask you whenever I have a question regarding the RCC (or are you Greek Orthodox?)