Bill “Papa” Lee Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) One of the most common practices (tactics) of the anti-Mormon crowd is quoting the Bible and BoM (or even the D&C) out of context in an effort to make it clear of our error. One of the most oft quoted BoM scriptures (if not the most oft quoted) is 2 Nephi 25: 23;23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.As demonstrated by this link…https://www.google.c...iw=1280&bih=854BTW: By LDS and Non-LDS alike.While attempting to post something last night, it became clear to me how this works...Just a side bar comment fro Elder OaksElder Dallin H Oaks (as have all the Prophets and Apostles) made in clear that we cannot save ourselves…“After all our obedience and good works, we cannot be saved from the effect of our sins without the grace extended by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.” —Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, “What Think Ye of Christ?” Ensign, Nov. 1988, 67.Critics move from Romans, from Matthew, to John to Proverbs, to Psalms and back as though they were written on the same day by the same person…admittedly we do the same…so here are three examples from a different source; one of my own and two from another.First from John Donne (in the three examples the highlighted quotes that are red, “out of context”, while the quotes in green, “the quotes in context to explain”). I used this method in the BoM reference. I will use this method to “define” what a thread might look like.(Thread tiles in Red as well...Thread title…”John Donne does not believe in the resurrection”!Death, Be Not ProudDeath, be not proud, though some have called theeMighty and dreadful, for thou art not so;For those whom thou think'st thou dost overthrowDie not, poor Death; nor yet canst thou kill me.From rest and sleep, which but thy pictures be,Much pleasure; then from thee much more must flow;And soonest our best men with thee do go--Rest of their bones and souls' delivery!Thou art slave to fate and chance, kings, and desperate men,And dost with poison, war and sickness dwell;And poppy or charms can make us sleep as wellAnd better than thy stroke. Why swell'st thou then?One short sleep past, we wake eternally,And Death shall be no more: Death, thou shalt die,(John Donne)Next thread…(My Own poem; Just one stanza from my poem “The Journey”) “Bill Lee a Mormon admits he is blind and deaf to Light and Words of God”!Tho’ blinded by the darkness,The light I still can see.Tho’ deafened by the silence,His voice still calls to me.Next thread; “Annie Johnson Flint, blasphemes God”!What God Hath PromisedGod hath not promisedSkies always blue,Flower-strewn pathwaysAll out lives through;God hath not promisedSun without rain,Joy without sorrow,Peace without pain.But God hath promisedStrength for the day,Rest for the labor,Light for the way,Grace for the trials,Help from above,Unfailing sympathy,Undying love.Annie Johnson FlintGreat how this works, and why I am glad this site is here! Edited March 16, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) what link?Sorry added...Also re-highlighted. Edited March 16, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee
cinepro Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 One of the most common practices (tactics) of the anti-Mormon crowd is quoting the Bible and BoM (or even the D&C) out of context in an effort to make it clear of our error. One of the most oft quoted BoM scriptures (if not the most oft quoted) is 2 Nephi 25: 23;As demonstrated by this link…https://www.google.c...iw=1280&bih=854BTW: By LDS and Non-LDS alike.While attempting to post something last night, it became clear to me how this works...Your note "By LDS and Non-LDS alike" acknowledges that the first Google result at your link is to the LDS-published "New Era" magazine:Tough Topics: Are you Saved By Grace or Works?I'm not sure what the rest of your post has to do with this, but can you provide some examples of anti-Mormons using 2 Nephi 25:23 "out of context"? The verse itself is fairly well contained, and clear in saying that we are saved through grace, but a critical component of that salvation also includes "all that we can do". The article from the New Era supports this:If your friends ask, “Does your church believe you are saved by grace or works?” you could say, “We believe that we are saved by grace after all we can do (see 2 Ne. 25:23). We don’t earn salvation. Heavenly Father and the Savior will bless us with eternal life, through Their grace, if we do our part. They have asked us to have faith in Jesus Christ, repent throughout our lives, be baptized and receive other ordinances, and faithfully endure to the end. If we do that, we are promised eternal life through the grace of God.”To someone who believes that the "all that we can do" part of the equation is irrelevant, the verse itself contradicts their beliefs with no further context needed. In other words, it's fair to say that we disagree with some other Christians on that point, and they don't need to quote anything out of context to prove it.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 Your note "By LDS and Non-LDS alike" acknowledges that the first Google result at your link is to the LDS-published "New Era" magazine:Tough Topics: Are you Saved By Grace or Works?I'm not sure what the rest of your post has to do with this,I put that in to point out that 'we' know we are saved by grace.
orion88 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 One of the most common practices (tactics) of the anti-Mormon crowd is quoting the Bible and BoM (or even the D&C) out of context ...The LDS Church is not immune herself in taking the Bible out of context. See Doctrineof Covenants 128:15 - to support her teaching about proxy baptism:http://www.lds.org/s...dc/128?lang=engThe word "perfect" is linked to Hebrews 11:40 - "God having provided some betterthing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."What is the proper context here? Who are "they?""Women received their dead raised to life again; and others were tortured, not acceptingdeliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection. And others had trial of cruelmockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment; They were stoned,they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword; they wandered about insheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; Of whom the world was notworthy: they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth"(vv. 35-38).These people are believers in Christ–they are already saved. This passage is not talkingabout people needing to be baptized after death.
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