georged Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 If you can't understand those simple verses and what they are saying, or why Christ used those verses recorded in John 10:33-35 to defend HImself against the charge of blasphemy by stating that it was also written that "ye are gods," then maybe I can't help you!!! However, there are English tutors who perhaps can. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the translation as gods, and it was being applied to the men involved concerning both verses! That's very simple!!!
volgadon Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 If you can't understand those simple verses and what they are saying, or why Christ used those verses recorded in John 10:33-35 to defend HImself against the charge of blasphemy by stating that it was also written that "ye are gods," then maybe I can't help you!!!Are you entirely certain that you are reading and responding to my posts?However, there are English tutors who perhaps can.Do you mean to say that my situation is not entirely hopeless? The thought that I have been reading Donne, Coleridge, Blake, Shelley, Kipling, Saki, Somerset Maugham, Wodehouse and Waugh for years in English without understanding as much as a single word is bothering me, rendering my entire situation meaningless.There is absolutely nothing wrong with the translation as gods,I absloutely agree.http://calba-savua.blogspot.com/2010/05/ye-are-gods.htmland it was being applied to the men involved concerning both verses! That's very simple!!!Rather than asserting it, please show how "gods" is applied to men in Ps. 82, not in John 10.
georged Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 It apllies to both! In Psalms 82:6, the simple, but true statement is made that we are gods and that we are all the children of the Most High, meaning that we, of course, being gods in embryo, have the potential to become as our Heavenly Father! In the book of John, Jesus is being accused of blasphemy for making Homself to be a god. Jesus defends Himself by quoting the previous verse and telling them that the scriptures also state that they are gods!!!
volgadon Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 It apllies to both! In Psalms 82:6, the simple, but true statement is made that we are gods and that we are all the children of the Most High, meaning that we, of course, being gods in embryo, have the potential to become as our Heavenly Father! In the book of John, Jesus is being accused of blasphemy for making Homself to be a god. Jesus defends Himself by quoting the previous verse and telling them that the scriptures also state that they are gods!!!Since you seem unaware of the difference between asserting and showing, I wouldn't mind you tagging along to my lessons with the English tutor. Please show how Ps. 82:6-7 refers to all of us.
Cobalt-70 Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Perhaps you didn't read all of the discourses of Brigham Young! He most certainly did, and furthermore, if you read in "Mormon Doctrine" under "Son of God", you will see it there also! The other statements you made were also incorrect. No resurrected being ever becomes unresurrected! Furthermore, Brigham Young never stated that Adam was God the Father! The Adam God theory is also justifiably condemned in "Mormon Doctrine"! The only thing that you did get right was that Brigham Young did state that our first prents came from another planet.Obviously, Bruce R. McConkie disagreed with the Adam-God theory, because the theory was officially superseded by the Elohim-God theory in a June 30, 1916 First Presidency statement. That doesn't mean it wasn't the predominant theology of the Brigham Young era, though. It used to be vogue for apologetic scholars to allege that Young never taught the doctrine, but you don't hear many denials anymore. The conclusion is ultimately unescapable. Young talked about the doctrine too many times.For example, with relation to the issues you raise above, when Young first announced the doctrine at spring 1852 general conference, he stated, "When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him." (J.D. 1, p. 50).In a special conference later in 1852, Young said that after Adam and Eve gave birth to the spirits of all of humanity, they came to the newly-created earth, where they "eat and drink of the fruits of the corporal world, until the grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies, to enable them according to the established laws to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children." (Deseret News--Extra, 11-14 (Sept. 14, 1852).He later taught that "Adam was an immortal being when he came, on this earth he had lived on an earth similar to ours.... In his divinity he having gone back into the spirit World, and come into the spirit to Mary and he conceived for when Adam and Eve got through with their Work on this earth, they did not lay their bodies down in the dust, but returned to the spirit World from whence they came." (Journal of L. John Nuttall, Young's personal secretary).So just to clarify, I mis-spoke when I said in the earlier post that Young claimed Adam and Eve became mortal again. He actually just said that their celestial bodies became modified so that they could give mortal birth to their spirit children. He claimed that they did not actually die, but simply left the earth again to go back to their thrones in heaven. So apparently Young did not think that Adam and Eve were ever fully mortal on this earth. Edited March 20, 2012 by Cobalt-70
volgadon Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 George, if we were to buy in to your interpretation of Ps. 82, then God is sentencing the widows and fatherless for perverting justice against their own selves. Tad silly, don't you think?
georged Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Somehow, it seems that when the scriptures are involved, people throw away all the normal rules of English comprehension! I have no idea where you are going with that! Hello! It is a simple English statement telling the people that they are gods, and it is the same thing that Christ tells other people! Furthermore, in Revelation 3:21, Christ states, "to him that overcometh {Who? ANYONE!} will I grant to sit with me on my throne {What throne? Obviously the throne of godhopod!} just as I overcame and am sat down with my Father on His throne."! These statements apply to anyone sho will reach their potential as gods! They are very simple statements!!!
volgadon Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Somehow, it seems that when the scriptures are involved, people throw away all the normal rules of English comprehension! I have no idea where you are going with that! Hello! It is a simple English statement telling the people that they are gods, and it is the same thing that Christ tells other people!I am very glad to learn that Ps. 82 was originally written in English. I've been reading it wrong all these years. http://books.google.com/books?id=h4Oap-Kty7gC&printsec=frontcover&dq=siege+krishnapur+bible+english&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yudnT9u1LuqdiQK_08TaBg&ved=0CE8Q6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=Hebrew&f=falseTake a look at Ps. 82:1-5 and 7-8. Please tell where you see that Ps. 82:6 means all people. Furthermore, in Revelation 3:21, Christ states, "to him that overcometh {Who? ANYONE!} will I grant to sit with me on my throne {What throne? Obviously the throne of godhopod!} just as I overcame and am sat down with my Father on His throne."! These statements apply to anyone sho will reach their potential as gods! They are very simple statements!!!Relevance?
georged Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 It is mentioned several times in the scritures to different people, and it is mentioned also in Revelation 3:21. In Acts 17:28, the Apostle Paul, states that we are the offspring of God! He was preaching to the non believing Greeks. This applies to all of us since we are all spirit children of the Father of spirits (see Hebrews 12:9)!
volgadon Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 It is mentioned several times in the scritures to different people, and it is mentioned also in Revelation 3:21. In Acts 17:28, the Apostle Paul, states that we are the offspring of God! He was preaching to the non believing Greeks. This applies to all of us since we are all spirit children of the Father of spirits (see Hebrews 12:9)!Lots of things are mentioned several times in the scriptures to different people. Please attempt to stay on track and answer questions.
Cobalt-70 Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Somehow, it seems that when the scriptures are involved, people throw away all the normal rules of English comprehension! I have no idea where you are going with that! Hello! It is a simple English statement telling the people that they are gods, and it is the same thing that Christ tells other people! Furthermore, in Revelation 3:21, Christ states, "to him that overcometh {Who? ANYONE!} will I grant to sit with me on my throne {What throne? Obviously the throne of godhopod!} just as I overcame and am sat down with my Father on His throne."! These statements apply to anyone sho will reach their potential as gods! They are very simple statements!!!Psalm 82 is very difficult to understand by any modern reader who is approaching the psalm with either (1) a monotheistic bias, or (2) a Mormon presentist bias. The psalm as a whole makes no sense under either worldview, and only makes sense if you understand that in ancient Hebrew religion, the god El was part of a divine council. Edited March 20, 2012 by Cobalt-70
georged Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Cobalt, you are wrong about the Adam God theory. I have read all of the discourses of Brigham Young and he states that Heavely Father, not Adam " partook of the course materials of the earth," his body became charged, and He fathered a physical tabernacle for Adam!!! I have not read all of the J of D's, however, I have never seen anything like that in there, and i have never seen anything like that in all of the discoiurses of Brigham Young. On the contrary, he distinguishes many times between Heavenly Father and Adam! I also wouldn't put much trust in the alledged journal of some secretary! Crazy Israeli, if you can't understand my posts shich are extremely simple and clear in their ecplaination of "Ye are gods", and you believe that somehow that might not apply to all of Gods children for some strange reason, then I am afraif that I can't help you anymore than I cvould help other Israelis who despite more than 500 prophesies of Christ in the O.T. still don't believe in Him! I am not god and I can't make the blind see!
volgadon Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Simple and clear doesn't necessarily mean correct.
volgadon Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Crazy Israeli, if you can't understand my posts shich are extremely simple and clear in their ecplaination of "Ye are gods", and you believe that somehow that might not apply to all of Gods children for some strange reason,I for one would be very glad to know that not all of God's children are included among those punished for perverting justice and oppressing the widows and orphans. I am also more than certain that you have only read verse 6 of Ps. 82.then I am afraif that I can't help you anymore than I cvould help other Israelis who despite more than 500 prophesies of Christ in the O.T. still don't believe in Him!With help like that, who needs enemies? I am not god Which is very reassuring.and I can't make the blind see!You have saved me the necessity of quoting Luke on physicians.
georged Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Yes, we believe as LDS that there are some errors in the Bible text, however, as another blogger has stated, this translation in to English is a good one, and it is also consistant with the good translation from the Greek in John 10:33-35.
Cobalt-70 Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Cobalt, you are wrong about the Adam God theory. I have read all of the discourses of Brigham Young and he states that Heavely Father, not Adam " partook of the course materials of the earth," his body became charged, and He fathered a physical tabernacle for Adam!!! I have not read all of the J of D's, however, I have never seen anything like that in there, and i have never seen anything like that in all of the discoiurses of Brigham Young. On the contrary, he distinguishes many times between Heavenly Father and Adam! I also wouldn't put much trust in the alledged journal of some secretary!Read this, then: http://books.google.com/books?id=CFIoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA17. It is the report of a Special Conference in Salt Lake, recorded by the church's stenographer and published Millennial Star, an official church publication. It clearly says that it was Adam and Eve who ate the "grosser matter" of the Garden so that their celestial bodies would be capable of giving physical bodies to their spirit children.Crazy Israeli, if you can't understand my posts shich are extremely simple and clear in their ecplaination of "Ye are gods", and you believe that somehow that might not apply to all of Gods children for some strange reason, then I am afraif that I can't help you anymore than I cvould help other Israelis who despite more than 500 prophesies of Christ in the O.T. still don't believe in Him! I am not god and I can't make the blind see!I think you have me confused with Volgadon.
volgadon Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I think you have me confused with Volgadon.I think he was addressing us both in the same post.
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