Olavarria Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) When studying the etymology of of untranslated words in The Book of Mormon, the book's origin makes things complicated. For the Book of Ether, these names come to us through five channels of transmission. The original historical sources, Ether’s redaction of those sources into his record, Mosiah’s translation of that record, Moroni’s redaction of that translation for his account and Joseph’s translation of Moroni’s account. The likelihood that some Jaredite names have been transliterated into some form of Nephite by Mosiah is evidenced by Biblical names in the Jaredite king list: Levi, Aaron, Jared and Seth.Moroni also reminds us that Nephite prophet-historians were working with attestations of two Old World languages, Hebrew and Egyptian (Mormon 9:32-33). When studying Nephite words, after Hebrew and Egyptian options have been exhausted, perhaps we can turn to Akkadian. Akkadian is a sister language of biblical Hebrew; because of its extensive lexicography, it is often able to elucidate the meaning of hitherto unknown Hebrew words and provide homonyms for those that are already attested.Can it do the same for Nephite? Maybe. In using Akkadian as an interpretive tool , I am not saying that any Book of Mormon words are Akkadian in origin! I am saying that Akkadian may help interpret the Nephite text were biblical Hebrew and Egyptian leave us empty handed.Heshlon“And it came to pass that Shared fought against him for the space of three days. And it came to pass that Coriantumr beat him, and did pursue him until he came to the plains of Heshlon” (Ether 13:28).In Akkadian ḫašālu, means “to crush, to shatter” (1). The terminal -ôn is the nominal suffix found in biblical and Book of Mormon toponyms. The name in its current form may be a product of Mosiah’s transliteration. In Aramaic, ḥšl means “subdue” (Daniel 2:40), in Hebrew, “shatter” (Deuteronomy 25:18). Making Heshlon, literally, “the place of crushing”; this fits the military context of the verse (2). This toponym may have been applied in connection with a previous battle. Naming a place after what occurred there is not out of the ordinary, as in Ramathlehi (Judges15:15-17) and the land of Desolation (Alma 22:30).Cumom“And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms;”(Ether 9:19).A near homonym for cumom is kumû, possibly pelican or crane(3). Though I don't actually believe that a cumom is a pelican. I think it's likely that a cumom is some type of bird.LamanThough we may not know what the name Laman means or where it came from, it may have had a double meaning among the Nephite prophet-historians. In Akkadian, lemēnu means: to fall into misfortune(2 Nephi 4:3-6), to be angered(1 Nephi 3:28), to treat each other badly(1 Nephi 18:11),to become depressed repeatedly(1 Nephi 16:20), to make two parties enemies of each other(Jacob 1:14)(5).CumorahIn Akkadian, kamāru means to “heap up, pile up”, among other things, corpses(6). This recalls Samson’s exploits when he says: “With the jawbone of an ***, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an *** have I slain a thousand men”(Judges 15:16). Here the Hebrew ḥamor(חֲמוֹר) means “heaps”. This is interesting given the context in which Cumorah is used(Mormon 6:11-15).Zerin“For the brother of Jared said unto the mountain Zerin, Remove—and it was removed. And if he had not had faith it would not have moved; wherefore thou workest after men have faith”(Ether 12:30). What would give cause for this prophet to literally remove a mountain? Akkadian gives us a possible clue. In Akkadian, zēʾirānu means: “enemy, hostile person”(4). Could the mountain this prophet removed have been the stronghold of a hostile enemy? We can never know for sure. In the end, all linguists can do is point out possibilities.Sources(1)The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of The University of Chicago, h [het], pg137.(2) J. Tvedtnes, “Hebrew Names in the Book of Mormon,” a 1994 Book of Mormon Lecture, 3; Noth, IPN, 56.(3)The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of The University of Chicago, k, pg 107, 535(4)The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of The University of Chicago, z, pg 14.(5)The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of The University of Chicago, l, pg 116.(6)The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of The University of Chicago, k, pg 113, 114.(7) The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of The University of Chicago, s [shin], pg 345. Edited December 6, 2011 by Pedro A. Olavarria 1
altersteve Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Earlier you suggested that the Jaredites may have spoken Akkadian, a Semitic language (if I'm not mistaken). However, I was under the impression that the general consensus among Book of Mormon scholars is that the Jaredites were an Asiatic people. Is it possible that a group of people from Asia would speak a Semitic language?
LeSellers Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Earlier you suggested that the Jaredites may have spoken Akkadian, a Semitic language (if I'm not mistaken). However, I was under the impression that the general consensus among Book of Mormon scholars is that the Jaredites were an Asiatic people. Is it possible that a group of people from Asia would speak a Semitic language?Why not? Palestine, Syria, etc., are in Asia.Lehi
altersteve Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Why not? Palestine, Syria, etc., are in Asia.LehiI meant Eastern Asia, sorry. Isn't that what Hugh Nibley suggested?
Olavarria Posted December 6, 2011 Author Posted December 6, 2011 Earlier you suggested that the Jaredites may have spoken Akkadian, a Semitic language (if I'm not mistaken). However, I was under the impression that the general consensus among Book of Mormon scholars is that the Jaredites were an Asiatic people. Is it possible that a group of people from Asia would speak a Semitic language?I'm backing off from the whole Akkadian-Jaredite idea. It's untenable.
ksfisher Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 If I remember correctly, Brant Gardner suggests in his book Second Witness that the Jaredites were Semetic. It's been a while since I read that volume, so I don't recall his reasoning.
altersteve Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) I'm backing off from the whole Akkadian-Jaredite idea. It's untenable.Ah, okay then. Do you agree with Nibley that the Jaredites were from Eastern Asia?I always love reading your posts, by the way. Your insights about Book of Mormon languages are awesome. Edited December 6, 2011 by altersteve
Cobalt-70 Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Earlier you suggested that the Jaredites may have spoken Akkadian, a Semitic language (if I'm not mistaken). However, I was under the impression that the general consensus among Book of Mormon scholars is that the Jaredites were an Asiatic people. Is it possible that a group of people from Asia would speak a Semitic language?The Book of Mormon indicates that the Jaredites spoke the mythical Adamic language. Ether 1:33-35, 3:24.
ksfisher Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 The Book of Mormon indicates that the Jaredites spoke the mythical Adamic language. Ether 1:33-35, 3:24.The verses cited say nothing about the language being "Adamic." Just that the language which was spoken by the brother of Jared and his people would not be confounded. 1
altersteve Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 The Book of Mormon indicates that the Jaredites spoke the mythical Adamic language. Ether 1:33-35, 3:24.No it doesn't. 1
ksfisher Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Does anyone have a reference as to where the belief that the Jaredites spoke Adamic began?
Olavarria Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 Ah, okay then. Do you agree with Nibley that the Jaredites were from Eastern Asia?I always love reading your posts, by the way. Your insights about Book of Mormon languages are awesome.I'm just thinking aloud.
livy111us Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Does anyone have a reference as to where the belief that the Jaredites spoke Adamic began?I think it came from someone interpreting the text itself. If everyone spoke the "pure language" or Adamic prior to the tower of Babel and Jared and his brother et al were the only ones who didn't have their language confounded, that would mean that the Jaredites spoke Adamic down to Coriantumr. That is accepting the fact that the language did not change with time or was affected by any other neighboring languages.“It is stated in the Book of Ether that Jared and his brother made the request of the Lord that their language be not changed at the time of the confusion of tongues at the Tower of Babel. Their request was granted, and they carried with them the speech of their fathers, the Adamic language, which was powerful even in its written form, so that the things Mahonri wrote ‘were mighty even…unto the overpowering of man to read them.’ (Ether 12:24) That was the kind of language Adam had and this was the language with which Enoch was able to accomplish his mighty work.” (The Way to Perfection, p. 69) Edited December 7, 2011 by livy111us
ksfisher Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 I think it came from someone interpreting the text itself. If everyone spoke the "pure language" or Adamic prior to the tower of Babel and Jared and his brother et al were the only ones who didn't have their language confounded, that would mean that the Jaredites spoke Adamic down to Coriantumr. That is accepting the fact that the language did not change with time or was affected by any other neighboring languagesIt seems like a huge jump to infer from the text that the Jaredites spoke Adamic. It would bet that the belief can be traced back to the statement of an early church leader.
livy111us Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 It seems like a huge jump to infer from the text that the Jaredites spoke Adamic. It would bet that the belief can be traced back to the statement of an early church leader.In addition to the JFS quote above, I don't think there is anything earlier.
Cobalt-70 Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Does anyone have a reference as to where the belief that the Jaredites spoke Adamic began?I think it's pretty clear, from the Book of Mormon text and historical context, that this was Smith's intention from the beginning. The idea of an Adamic language that continued to the Tower of Babel is not Smith's invention. The idea of an Adamic language, confounded at Babel, was part of Kabbalism, and was a fixture of Medieval esoterism. Smith never said anything that would suggest his understanding of this mythical language was different from the esoteric understanding. It was also the understanding of Smith's contemporaries. Orson Pratt, for example, taught that the "Adamic language" continued to the Tower of Babel. (JD 3:100). Later, Joseph Fielding Smith taught the same thing (Way to Perfection, p. 69). Even the LDS Church-published 2009 Book of Mormon Student Manual teaches this (p. 362), citing Joseph Fielding Smith. This is the original and still-mainstream LDS understanding of the Adamic/Jaredite language, Hugh Nibley's dubious revisionism notwithstanding. Edited December 8, 2011 by Cobalt-70
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I think it's pretty clear, from the Book of Mormon text and historical context, that this was Smith's intention from the beginning.I don't think it was clear at all and I don't think he had any such think in mind. There is simply no evidence for this. Thanks for playing.
ksfisher Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I think it's pretty clear, from the Book of Mormon text and historical context, that this was Smith's intention from the beginning. The idea of an Adamic language that continued to the Tower of Babel is not Smith's invention. The idea of an Adamic language, confounded at Babel, was part of Kabbalism, and was a fixture of Medieval esoterism. Smith never said anything that would suggest his understanding of this mythical language was different from the esoteric understanding. It was also the understanding of Smith's contemporaries. Orson Pratt, for example, taught that the "Adamic language" continued to the Tower of Babel. (JD 3:100). Later, Joseph Fielding Smith taught the same thing (Way to Perfection, p. 69). Even the LDS Church-published 2009 Book of Mormon Student Manual teaches this (p. 362), citing Joseph Fielding Smith. This is the original and still-mainstream LDS understanding of the Adamic/Jaredite language, Hugh Nibley's dubious revisionism notwithstanding.I believe as well that this was the common belief at the time, which has continued into our time. But I see no written evidence in any of the scriptures as to what language was spoken by the Jaredites.
Cobalt-70 Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I believe as well that this was the common belief at the time, which has continued into our time. But I see no written evidence in any of the scriptures as to what language was spoken by the Jaredites.The Book of Mormon says they spoke the pre-Babel language, which Genesis describes as a world-wide language spoken by the entire world. The Jaredites' language, unlike the language of all other people, was not "confounded," so they obviously spoke this mythical pre-Babel language. It was supposed to be a powerful, magical, and "pure" language, and Joseph Smith believed in such a language, wholeheartedly, and even tried to "restore" this language. Was there actually such a language? No. But Smith certainly believed there was, and that is reflected in the Book of Mormon.
LeSellers Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 The Book of Mormon says they spoke the pre-Babel language, which Genesis describes as a world-wide language spoken by the entire world.The Book of Mormon does not say that.The Jaredites' language, unlike the language of all other people, was not "confounded," so they obviously spoke this mythical pre-Babel language.Not at all obvious.It was supposed to be a powerful, magical, and "pure" language, and Joseph Smith believed in such a language, wholeheartedly, and even tried to "restore" this language. Was there actually such a language? No. But Smith certainly believed there was, and that is reflected in the Book of Mormon.Just another reason I am glad you chose your screen name: it is symbolic of your radioactivity.Lehi
ksfisher Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 The Book of Mormon says they spoke the pre-Babel language, which Genesis describes as a world-wide language spoken by the entire world. The Jaredites' language, unlike the language of all other people, was not "confounded," so they obviously spoke this mythical pre-Babel language. It was supposed to be a powerful, magical, and "pure" language, and Joseph Smith believed in such a language, wholeheartedly, and even tried to "restore" this language. Was there actually such a language? No. But Smith certainly believed there was, and that is reflected in the Book of Mormon.Where in the Book of Mormon does it say what language they spoke?
blackstrap Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Jared's request to not have their language confounded,could have just as well been done by having them all speak the same NEW language and not their original language. If they all then spoke a new language,how would they know they had a different original language.Mind you,if there were written records in the original then a problem of replacing them in the new language would be more miraculous.
Cobalt-70 Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Where in the Book of Mormon does it say what language they spoke?The Book of Mormon doesn't name it "Adamic," but it says that they spoke the language of the people who lived at the Tower of Babel. Ether 1:33-35. Genesis 11:9 says this was the "language of all the earth." The term "Adamic," in reference to this mythical language, was invented during the Middle Ages.
Cobalt-70 Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Jared's request to not have their language confounded,could have just as well been done by having them all speak the same NEW language and not their original language. If they all then spoke a new language,how would they know they had a different original language.Mind you,if there were written records in the original then a problem of replacing them in the new language would be more miraculous.Also, what would be the point of just swapping one language for another?
ksfisher Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 The Book of Mormon doesn't name it "Adamic," but it says that they spoke the language of the people who lived at the Tower of Babel. Ether 1:33-35. Genesis 11:9 says this was the "language of all the earth." The term "Adamic," in reference to this mythical language, was invented during the Middle Ages.The text does not say that Jared spoke the same language as the people at the tower. That is something that members of the church have always assumed. The text says that Jared did not wish for his families language to be confounded, which Webster at the time of the publication of the Book of Mormon defined as confused or perplexed. I think that the Bibles claim that the language of the people at the tower was the language of all the earth can best be understood as hyperbole.
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