Ex-Mormons

[Sky]

Ex-Mormons can repent and return to the Church if they choose to. I don’t think it’s usually a quick and easy process, though. They have to take the initiative and demonstrate a real desire and commitment to come back. I know of people who have been re-baptized and had their priesthood and temple blessings restored after many years of being outside the Church, and it has been a joyous occasion for them.

But unfortunately, this doesn’t happen for everybody. Some people never come back and some people even choose to fight the Church. There is a strong, organized network of ex-Mormons that vocally oppose the Church on a variety of issues. They are antagonistic. They leave the Church, but they can never seem totally rid themselves of their anger towards and obsession with the Church. A few put up their own ‘I am an ex-Mormon’ videos on the internet saying how their lives have gotten so much better since leaving the Church. This is the group of people that I’m the most concerned about.

[mfbukowski]

Are you saying that if someone has seen unusual circumstances that should have pointed them to the Mormon Church, these were actual promptings of The Holy Spirit, and they then interpreted them as "coincedences," they've denied The Holy Spirit?

Not at all. I didn't understand your motivation or why these were important questions to you before.

It is said that one would have to know with the certainty that one has that the sun exists and lights our world, while feeling its heat and light and then consciously denying that any of these things are so in order to qualify as a "son of Perdition".

I think there are probably very few who even qualify, having that level of knowledge to begin with. Lucifer himself, since he has seen God face to face does, Cain, as far as we know his story, does, Joseph presumably, had he denied the church and assuming he actually had the first vision, would qualify.

But who else? Maybe one or two others - maybe several total in history who had their own reasons to do that- it is even hard to conceive the motivation for someone who knew with that level of certainty to deny what he knew. Why would anyone do that?

But having doubts is normal- deciding that you made a mistake in good faith is normal. You have to ask yourself- if you are acting in good faith, why would a merciful God do that to you because you had doubts?

The answer is: He wouldn't! So either God is unmerciful, in which case we are all in a mess, or he doesn't exist, then it doesn't matter anyway!

I have already left one religion and people have told me I am going to hell because of it, but guess what? I don't care what they say, because I did not believe it in the first place, and that is why I left.

So it seems contradictory to me that someone might decide that Mormonism is false and then worry about leaving because it might be true.

My advice would be to jump in with both feet and stop worrying about it. If you decide it's false later, and leave, you won't care because you will think all these concerns are false anyway!

[mfbukowski]

Ex-Mormons can repent and return to the Church if they choose to. I don’t think it’s usually a quick and easy process, though. They have to take the initiative and demonstrate a real desire and commitment to come back. I know of people who have been re-baptized and had their priesthood and temple blessings restored after many years of being outside the Church, and it has been a joyous occasion for them.

But unfortunately, this doesn’t happen for everybody. Some people never come back and some people even choose to fight the Church. There is a strong, organized network of ex-Mormons that vocally oppose the Church on a variety of issues. They are antagonistic. They leave the Church, but they can never seem totally rid themselves of their anger towards and obsession with the Church. A few put up their own ‘I am an ex-Mormon’ videos on the internet saying how their lives have gotten so much better since leaving the Church. This is the group of people that I’m the most concerned about.

Unquestionably they are jerks.

But I think there is practically no possibility that any of these qualify to be "sons of perdition"

elguanteloko, on the other hand, is a special case....... where's that blowtorch? ........

(just kidding el - you know I love you dude!)

[jo1952]

Have I mentioned yet today how much I love ALL of you???? I feel I will burst!! I think it all of the time; but I have to say it out loud just so that you know.

Love,

jo

[Sky]

Unquestionably they are jerks.

But I think there is practically no possibility that any of these qualify to be "sons of perdition"

Yes, I agree with you. Telestial kingdom, maybe? Not a bad place, but still not exactly where we want to end up.

I guess it's really best to let God be the judge on these matters.

[Calm]

But who else? Maybe one or two others - maybe several total in history who had their own reasons to do that- it is even hard to conceive the motivation for someone who knew with that level of certainty to deny what he knew. Why would anyone do that?

Pride and envy are the only two shared obvious motivators in the two identified examples that we are given (Lucifer and Cain).

You can see this at times in a diminished version among those who are angered at being offered charity because they see themselves as better than that, yet also expressing anger when they are deprived of what they want because they also see themselves as somehow inherent deserving more. But few would take it to the extreme of both insisting that they were too 'good' to need charity from God AND that God owes them whatever they want for whatever reason.

I do think one can start getting into deep trouble when one starts imagining that one has the inherent right to dictate the terms of one's relationship with God. Unfortunately from what I've seen it is not all that unusual, but the Lord is also merciful in that few of us are given the level of knowledge that is also required to be able to have done the equivalent of walking and talking with God and then violently rejecting him (iirc something was said along the lines of a SOP recrucifies the Lord in his heart even knowing that Christ is his Lord). I find it impossible to imagine someone who would somehow first be able to merit seeing the Lord in the flesh and then being able to kill those feelings of awe and obedience to the point that they would be willing to destroy God if they had the chance. We have no idea of the relationships of Lucifer and Cain with God prior to their rebellion save that somehow they deserved to be viewed as noble so I don't see that examining what happened to them is going to give us any more insight into how one becomes a Son of Perdition save that it involves the sins of pride and envy. Therefore it seems to me if one is concerned about the possibility of sinning in such a fashion....even if not to the degree of Lucifer due to the lack of knowledge, at least in kind so to speak.....that we stress those actions on our lives that actually lead to the Lord revealing himself to us while keeping in mind no matter what we are given or blest with by the Lord, we will always be unprofitable servants. With that attitude of humility, no matter what we might accomplish in our lives, we will avoid making the mistake that we somehow deserve all that the Lord has given us even if we've somehow managed to deserve some of what we receive from him...and thus avoid the pit that Lucifer and Cain leaped into with such passion.

[Calm]

All of which brings to mind this talk: http://lds.org/general-conference/2010/10/the-divine-gift-of-gratitude?lang=eng