Gnosticism And Mormonism

[Damien the Leper]

Before anyone starts to get on the defensive...I started this thread to explore what others saw as doctrinal connections between the early Christian mystics and Mormon theology.

Aside from gnosis, a Divine Goddess, and other particularly over-played points, what connections do others see?

A good friend of mine in an Ancient Christianity class a few years ago drew connections not only between Mormonism and Gnosticism but went further back to make connections with Kabbalists and Essenes. I still don't know much about Kabbalah or the Essenes but is there really something within the mystic context worth discussing pertaining to modern Mormonism?

[Cobalt-70]

I'd recommend that everybody read philosopher Harold Bloom's book The American Religion: The Emergence of the Post-Christian Nation. He is a gnostic (with a lower-case "g") Jew and has a lot of insights about how both Mormonism and (to a lesser extent) Evangelicalism is gnostic. He even went so far as to say that because they are both so gnostic, the two of them are more similar to each other than either of them is to Continental Christianity. Except, whereas ancient Gnostics sought after the Unknowable God and viewed the Demiurge as a false (but real) god, Mormons and Evangelicals worship the Demiurge.

Bloom noted that like the Gnostic God, the Mormon God is not a creator-God, because in Mormonism, humanity was never created. Also, each person has at least part of the God within herself. In addition, "Mormons have a Gnostic freedom from the world of nature, a necessary liberty for men who aspire to become gods, each with his own planet, a world altogether his own." The Mormon "aspires finally to govern without rivals in his own world, alone with his wife (or wives) and his varied progeny." "Smith's God is shrewdly compared by Sterling McMurrin to the Platonic Demiurge, satirized both by the Gnostics and by Blake as being a false deity. Smith's Gnosticism inverts the ancient variety and celebrated what McMurrin pictures as a hard-working God, fit model for the Mormons, who from the start through now have been perhaps the most industrious people on the American continent."

He states that Smith's belief "that our spirit or intelligence is as old as God and the gods, and so need never have been begotten," is "wholly Gnostic." With regard to the theological contributions of Brigham Young, he stated, "Somehow [brigham] Young found his way back to ancient Gnostic or Kabbalistic identifications in which Yahweh, Michael (or Metatron, Enoch) and Adam were three names for one being.

I can't remember if Bloom specifically raised this point, it seems like the most obvious connection between Mormonism and gnosticism is the temple ceremony, which includes an initiation and a conveyance of secret knowledge which is required for the path to God.

[Ron Beron]

Before anyone starts to get on the defensive...I started this thread to explore what others saw as doctrinal connections between the early Christian mystics and Mormon theology.

Aside from gnosis, a Divine Goddess, and other particularly over-played points, what connections do others see?

A good friend of mine in an Ancient Christianity class a few years ago drew connections not only between Mormonism and Gnosticism but went further back to make connections with Kabbalists and Essenes. I still don't know much about Kabbalah or the Essenes but is there really something within the mystic context worth discussing pertaining to modern Mormonism?

One thing that would argue against a Mormon/Gnostic connection is that Mormons feel very strongly in a super-physical God and Jesus and by extension, all of us. The Gnostics would probably balk at that prospect.

[jo1952]

Before anyone starts to get on the defensive...I started this thread to explore what others saw as doctrinal connections between the early Christian mystics and Mormon theology.

Aside from gnosis, a Divine Goddess, and other particularly over-played points, what connections do others see?

A good friend of mine in an Ancient Christianity class a few years ago drew connections not only between Mormonism and Gnosticism but went further back to make connections with Kabbalists and Essenes. I still don't know much about Kabbalah or the Essenes but is there really something within the mystic context worth discussing pertaining to modern Mormonism?

The generally understood definition of "gnostic" is possessing intellectual or spiritual knowledge. Some of the more famous early Christian mystics were the Apostle Paul (being considered to be one due to the focus of his teachings on the Holy Ghost), as was Valentinus. Is that who you have taken your avatar name after?

Within much of today's orthodox denominations there are various levels of fear surrounding getting to know the Holy Ghost very well. People believe that turning themselves over "uncontrolled" to the Holy Ghost places them in great danger of being possessed by an evil or demonic spirit.

That aspect surrounding gnosticism with respect to the Holy Ghost (not the other trappings of various beliefs held to) is what I see the LDS have a great deal of common with the early Church mystics. It is upon the foundation of being guided by the Holy Ghost that we claim the Book of Mormon to be truly a second Testament of Christ, etc. Some Christians are so afraid of being led astray by an evil spirit, that they make claims like "the work of the Holy Ghost has already been accomplished through the writings in the Bible"; IOW, He is no longer busy witnessing. They think the witness of the person sharing the Gospel message in the Bible is the same thing as thus personally having received a witness. This, of course, causes all kinds of interpretational problems. It causes them to think that if you reject Jesus' words, or reject the witness of an Apostle that you have actually denied the Holy Ghost and are condemned to a permanent eternity in h*ll.

Don't know if this is what you were going for; it is what I came up with as a result of my experiences on other non-LDS boards.

Regards,

jo

[Cobalt-70]

One thing that would argue against a Mormon/Gnostic connection is that Mormons feel very strongly in a super-physical God and Jesus and by extension, all of us. The Gnostics would probably balk at that prospect.

I think the Mormon Gods correspond to the Demiurge. And in that sense there is a clear distinction, because the Gnostics thought the Demiurge, the creator-god, was an inferior being and a false god. But Mormonism still has an Unknowable God in the form of the "glory of God," (aka "intelligence," or "light and truth"). This glory of God/intelligence is eternal, without creation, the spark of it is in every sentient being, be they god or human. So Mormonism is still gnostic, but it is an inversion of classical Gnosticism. We worship the Demiurge, the builder-god which the classical Gnostics believed was contaminated with the material realm. Basically, we are the "Satanists" of Gnosticism--we worship the "other guy."

[thesometimesaint]

And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (Emphasis mine)

John 17:3

[The Nehor]

I think the Mormon Gods correspond to the Demiurge. And in that sense there is a clear distinction, because the Gnostics thought the Demiurge, the creator-god, was an inferior being and a false god. But Mormonism still has an Unknowable God in the form of the "glory of God," (aka "intelligence," or "light and truth"). This glory of God/intelligence is eternal, without creation, the spark of it is in every sentient being, be they god or human. So Mormonism is still gnostic, but it is an inversion of classical Gnosticism. We worship the Demiurge, the builder-god which the classical Gnostics believed was contaminated with the material realm. Basically, we are the "Satanists" of Gnosticism--we worship the "other guy."

The primary difference is that unlike the gnostics we don't see matter as contaminated or lower. The gnostic need for the Demiurge was driven by their abhorrence of the idea that a good God would create or use matter.

[Cobalt-70]

The primary difference is that unlike the gnostics we don't see matter as contaminated or lower. The gnostic need for the Demiurge was driven by their abhorrence of the idea that a good God would create or use matter.

Exactly. So in a sense, Mormonism is an inversion of Gnosticism. Yet at the same time, I think the general framework of Gnosticism is still intact with Mormonism, just reversed. There is still a distinction between gnostic "spirit" and material, it is just that Mormons favor the material above the spirit. By the say, I don't think the Gnostic "spirit" corresponds to the Mormon "spirit." The Mormon "spirit" is actually material. Rather, the Gnostic "spirit" corresponds to intelligence, or the "light of Christ."

Mormons have the Unknowable God (we call it the "glory of God," "intelligence," "light and truth," or the "light of Christ") which was eternal, and predates the creator gods we call Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael. Each of us also has a spark of that intelligence/light of Christ, a spark within us that is uncreated and is part of the Unknowable God. Unlike in Gnosticism, however, Mormons do not believe that material elements prevent us from access to this Unknowable God, or that the binding of the intelligence to the soul or to the body is an "imprisonment." Like the Gnostics, we achieve exaltation through gnosis, and in a sense we become "unchained" from the Demiurge (creator gods), because we become independent gods and goddesses ruling our own worlds independent of the Demiurge. But for Mormons, the Demiurge God is an example of how we are to achieve this gnostic freedom, rather than a force trying to imprison us within himself.

[Damien the Leper]

The generally understood definition of "gnostic" is possessing intellectual or spiritual knowledge. Some of the more famous early Christian mystics were the Apostle Paul (being considered to be one due to the focus of his teachings on the Holy Ghost), as was Valentinus. Is that who you have taken your avatar name after?

Within much of today's orthodox denominations there are various levels of fear surrounding getting to know the Holy Ghost very well. People believe that turning themselves over "uncontrolled" to the Holy Ghost places them in great danger of being possessed by an evil or demonic spirit.

That aspect surrounding gnosticism with respect to the Holy Ghost (not the other trappings of various beliefs held to) is what I see the LDS have a great deal of common with the early Church mystics. It is upon the foundation of being guided by the Holy Ghost that we claim the Book of Mormon to be truly a second Testament of Christ, etc. Some Christians are so afraid of being led astray by an evil spirit, that they make claims like "the work of the Holy Ghost has already been accomplished through the writings in the Bible"; IOW, He is no longer busy witnessing. They think the witness of the person sharing the Gospel message in the Bible is the same thing as thus personally having received a witness. This, of course, causes all kinds of interpretational problems. It causes them to think that if you reject Jesus' words, or reject the witness of an Apostle that you have actually denied the Holy Ghost and are condemned to a permanent eternity in h*ll.

Don't know if this is what you were going for; it is what I came up with as a result of my experiences on other non-LDS boards.

Regards,

jo

I did get the avatar from Valentinus because I am fascinated by Valentinian Literature. I really like the Gospel of Truth, Secret Book of James, and Treatise on the Resurrection. I like to study Gnosticism but I'm unsure of how to implement some of its theology into my own theological thought.

[jo1952]

I did get the avatar from Valentinus because I am fascinated by Valentinian Literature. I really like the Gospel of Truth, Secret Book of James, and Treatise on the Resurrection. I like to study Gnosticism but I'm unsure of how to implement some of its theology into my own theological thought.

Hi Valentinus!

Thank you for the references. I have bookmarked them and am in the process of studying them. I will be getting back to you in a day or so after having a chance to properly digest them.

Regards,

jo

[Damien the Leper]

Hi Valentinus!

Thank you for the references. I have bookmarked them and am in the process of studying them. I will be getting back to you in a day or so after having a chance to properly digest them.

Regards,

jo

Great...I look forward to a possible discussion on them.