Theres Something About Moses

[Zakuska]

There was something special about Moses we are told by the LORD in the book of Numbers...

Num 12

1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

2 And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.

3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

4 And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.

10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.

11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.

12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother’s womb.

13 And Moses cried unto the Lord, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.

14 ¶And the Lord said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.

15 And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again.

16 And afterward the people removed from Hazeroth, and pitched in the wilderness of Paran.

All the other prophets merely saw visions of God in dreams and such, but Moses he was special and he was going to see much more than just a vision of God.

Ex 33:23

17 And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

So here we see God saying Moses would see his "similitude" and his "Back parts". Two things Christians say the "invisible" God who cannot be seen by "real eyes" and not in the mind does not have.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Zakuska

[etana]

ok, this is just silly. I'm LDS but i don't have any difficulty with the idea of an omnipotent God manifesting himself to mortal eyes any way he sees fit. Visible, invisible, incorporeal whatever.

Make me wonder if it is some LDS who are the atheists because they can't imagine the existence of a God who actually acts like one, but just a man, God in name only.

[Zakuska]

ok, this is just silly. I'm LDS but i don't have any difficulty with the idea of an omnipotent God manifesting himself to mortal eyes any way he sees fit. Visible, invisible, incorporeal whatever.

Make me wonder if it is some LDS who are the atheists because they can't imagine the existence of a God who actually acts like one, but just a man, God in name only.

Jesus was a man-God, the very Image of God and so was Adam. What did he do that wasn't acting like a God?

Edited September 27, 2011 by Zakuska

[altersteve]

Jesus was a man-God, the very Image of God and so was Adam. What did he do that wasn't acting like a God?

Jesus was, and is, God, not a "man-God."

[Jesterss]

Jesus was a man-God, the very Image of God and so was Adam. What did he do that wasn't acting like a God?

If Adam were a God or God, why then did he lack knowledge of good and evil? Or lack understanding that he should not partake of the fruit? He would have known... Just as it was clear Jesus knew the entire bible + everything else. Adam was not a man-God or anything of that sort.

[altersteve]

If Adam were a God or God, why then did he lack knowledge of good and evil? Or lack understanding that he should not partake of the fruit? He would have known... Just as it was clear Jesus knew the entire bible + everything else. Adam was not a man-God or anything of that sort.

Latter-day Saints believe that Adam should have taken the fruit at one point or another.

[Zakuska]

If Adam were a God or God, why then did he lack knowledge of good and evil? Or lack understanding that he should not partake of the fruit? He would have known... Just as it was clear Jesus knew the entire bible + everything else. Adam was not a man-God or anything of that sort.

Luke 3

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

[altersteve]

Luke 3

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

This isn't saying that Adam is a god, it only says that he was God's son. Not the Son, just a son.

[LeSellers]

Luke 3

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

This isn't saying that Adam is a god, it only says that he was God's son. Not the Son, just a son.

Technically, it doesn't say Adam was the son of God, either.

τοῦ Ἐνὼς τοῦ Σὴθ τοῦ Ἀδὰμ τοῦ Θεοῦ.

of [the] Enos, of [the] Seth, of [the] Adam, of [the] God.

What it really says is "Adam of [the] God". The fact that the passage starts out, in verse 23, by saying that Jesus was (assumed to be) "the son" of Joseph leads one to claim that all of the others, "Xxxxx of [the] Yyyy", must also mean Xxxxx was the son of Yyyy, but that's not what the text says. Even the verb is assumed (although Greek doesn't require verbs in the same way we do in English, so it's not a great stretch).

Lehi

Edited September 28, 2011 by LeSellers

[Zakuska]

Well so far everyone who has commented on this thread has responded to side issues.

What about Moses seeing the "smilitude" of God? And not in a dream or a vision but "apparently"?

Edited September 28, 2011 by Zakuska

[Questing Beast]

Joseph Smith saw God apparently. And he woke up on his back gazing into heaven. It is all metaphysical experience, i.e. "out of the body", when all is said and done....

Edited September 28, 2011 by Questing Beast

[Zakuska]

Joseph Smith saw God apparently. And he woke up on his back gazing into heaven. It is all metaphysical experience, i.e. "out of the body", when all is said and done....

Paul couldn't tell if it was an "out of body" experience or not.

2 Corinthians 12:2

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

[altersteve]

Joseph Smith saw God apparently. And he woke up on his back gazing into heaven. It is all metaphysical experience, i.e. "out of the body", when all is said and done....

Joseph Smith's vision was not a metaphysical "out of body" experience. He simply passed out after seeing God's glory with his own eyes. I probably would too.

[frankenstein]

There was something special about Moses we are told by the LORD in the book of Numbers...

So here we see God saying Moses would see his "similitude" and his "Back parts". Two things Christians say the "invisible" God who cannot be seen by "real eyes" and not in the mind does not have.

One is only left to question to sincerity and if there is any righteous intent these types of post...."Captian Zinger" does little to help the credibility.

If you are going to bash "christian" beliefs, there are many things to use. However, I do not think this is the forum to wag the finger or say "nanner nanner" to other religions. CARM I am sure would most assuredly love you to post this over there.

[Zakuska]

One is only left to question to sincerity and if there is any righteous intent these types of post...."Captian Zinger" does little to help the credibility.

If you are going to bash "christian" beliefs, there are many things to use. However, I do not think this is the forum to wag the finger or say "nanner nanner" to other religions. CARM I am sure would most assuredly love you to post this over there.

CARM wouldn't let me post this over there. They would all cry something about being off topic.

Second, "Captian Zinger" wasn't a title I chose. When I first signed up It was blank... after posting for a few months the Mods went in and knighted me as such and I have worn the badge with Honor ever since.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Zakuska

[BCSpace]

Latter-day Saints believe that Adam should have taken the fruit at one point or another.

The Bible teaches the same expectation in 1 Peter 1:19-20 by telling us Christ was foreordained to his mission before the world was.

[Questing Beast]

Joseph Smith's vision was not a metaphysical "out of body" experience. He simply passed out after seeing God's glory with his own eyes. I probably would too.

It was metaphysical, judging by all subsequent visions: why would the first be any different? I draw your attention to the visions on the pulpit behind the drawn curtains in the Kirtland temple: light, sound and presence, of the Lord, Moses, Elijah, et al. Yet a congregation of near a thousand on the other side of the curtains saw and heard nothing....

[Ahab]

ok, this is just silly. I'm LDS but i don't have any difficulty with the idea of an omnipotent God manifesting himself to mortal eyes any way he sees fit. Visible, invisible, incorporeal whatever.

Wouldn't you agree that if God manifests himself in some form with some substance at least sometimes that at least sometimes he has some form and some substance?

Some people think he has no form or substance at all, as if that means he never has any form or substance.

And then there are those who think God has no body, parts, or passions, as if he never had and he never will.

Why can't some people just accept the fact that some people are WRONG when they say such things about God?

He does have soem form and some substance, and he does have a body, and some parts,and some passions.

The creeds which say he doesn't are simply WRONG, and anyone who accepts those creeds is wrong on those issues as well.

[Zakuska]

Wouldn't you agree that if God manifests himself in some form with some substance at least sometimes that at least sometimes he has some form and some substance?

Some people think he has no form or substance at all, as if that means he never has any form or substance.

And then there are those who think God has no body, parts, or passions, as if he never had and he never will.

Why can't some people just accept the fact that some people are WRONG when they say such things about God?

He does have soem form and some substance, and he does have a body, and some parts,and some passions.

The creeds which say he doesn't are simply WRONG, and anyone who accepts those creeds is wrong on those issues as well.

Which I could never understand because the God of the Bible certianly does have Passions.

Ex 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Moses 8:25

25 And it repented Noah, and his heart was pained that the Lord had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at the heart.

[jo1952]

Well so far everyone who has commented on this thread has responded to side issues.

What about Moses seeing the "smilitude" of God? And not in a dream or a vision but "apparently"?

Moses ASKED to see the Lord's glory; this, AFTER the Lord had already told Aaron and Miriam that He would show Himself to Moses. It seems like this episode is being used to teach all of us something(s) important. (and, wow - for Moses to have that kind of faith!) It reminds me of when the brother of Jared saw the finger of God (surprising him because it was made of flesh and blood), which then proceeded to the point when, due to the faith that the brother of Jared had, the Lord showed him the rest of Himself.

Regards,

jo

[etana]

Well so far everyone who has commented on this thread has responded to side issues.

What about Moses seeing the "smilitude" of God? And not in a dream or a vision but "apparently"?

I'm pretty sure that i did respond to that question in my post on this thread, but you ignored it in your reply, choosing to focus on a side issue. I am getting older though and could well be mistaken.