Gervin Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Do you actually know anything about the Book of Mormon? Your rant here demonstrates total ignorance of the "story line". There were three sources for all the verbal ties between the Bible and the Book of Mormon:The Brass Plates (of Laban) that included everything in the Bible up to c. 600 BC (and a lot more)The Visit of Jesus Christ to the remnant of the Nephites in ad 33, where He gave several quotations from both Old and New Testaments that were recorded after the Brass PlatesDirect inspiration and revelation from God on the similar topics in prophets' minds on both continents.Your question answers itself with a single, even casual reading of the book you so blithely attack.LehiI'm familiar with both the Book of Mormon and the Bible. Thanks for asking.
Pahoran Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I'm familiar with both the Book of Mormon and the Bible. Thanks for asking.So are you telling us that you knew that your sarcastic sneers of the "What a coincidence!" variety were duds?How interesting.Regards,Pahoran
Gervin Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 So are you telling us that you knew that your sarcastic sneers of the "What a coincidence!" variety were duds?How interesting.Regards,PahoranIf I asked for references to support these claimsThe Brass Plates (of Laban) that included everything in the Bible up to c. 600 BC (and a lot moreThe Visit of Jesus Christ to the remnant of the Nephites in ad 33, where He gave several quotations from both Old and New Testaments that were recorded after the Brass PlatesDirect inspiration and revelation from God on the similar topics in prophets' minds on both continentsthe best you could offer would involve some form of personal testimony. The only other option is coincidence.How uninteresting.
Pahoran Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 If I asked for references to support these claimsThe Brass Plates (of Laban) that included everything in the Bible up to c. 600 BC (and a lot moreThe Visit of Jesus Christ to the remnant of the Nephites in ad 33, where He gave several quotations from both Old and New Testaments that were recorded after the Brass PlatesDirect inspiration and revelation from God on the similar topics in prophets' minds on both continentsthe best you could offer would involve some form of personal testimony. The only other option is coincidence.How uninteresting.On the contrary; all of those assertions can be directly supported from the Book of Mormon text itself.Didn't you know that either?Are you asking for references, Gervin?In the meantime, on the subject of "uninteresting," I notice that you seem to think the ridiculous Spaulding theory actually worth mentioning.Regards,Pahoran
Gervin Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 On the contrary; all of those assertions can be directly supported from the Book of Mormon text itself.Didn't you know that either?Are you asking for references, Gervin?In the meantime, on the subject of "uninteresting," I notice that you seem to think the ridiculous Spaulding theory actually worth mentioning.Regards,PahoranYes, and the Book of Mormon is true because of your personal testimony. But go ahead and provide the verses that support the claims, if you'd like. With regard to Spalding, feel free to point out anything I said that is not correct.
Pahoran Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Yes, and the Book of Mormon is true because of your personal testimony.Which is, like your Spaulding mangle, entirely irrelevant. The point is that the Book of Mormon explicitly states that there are and will be direct matches between its contents and the Bible, and explains why. For you to ignore what the book itself says on the matter, and then triumphantly produce a handful of such matches as if they supported your knee-jerk dismissal of the book, is an argument that fails in advance to even begin to impress anyone who can read.But go ahead and provide the verses that support the claims, if you'd like.Why? Are you admitting that you are uninformed about the matters that Lehi brought to your attention?With regard to Spalding, feel free to point out anything I said that is not correct.I'm simply pointing out that it is irrelevant. More impressive word matches have been found with Leaves of Grass and the Heimskringla.But if you want to tie your credibility to the most-debunked theory of origins since the "dirty shirt" theory of abiogenesis, feel free.Regards,Pahoran
LeSellers Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Yes, and the Book of Mormon is true because of your personal testimony. No, the Book of Mormon is true because it's of God. My testimony, and those of millions of others, is based on that fact, i.e., the Holy Ghost has born witness to me of that truth. You seem to have mistaken the effect for its cause—a common problem among those who refuse the simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.Lehi Edited August 23, 2011 by LeSellers
blackstrap Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 Thank you all for your responses.I feel now that the dogs can "sit" and "stay" . Let's "roll over" to another thread.
LeSellers Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Let's "roll over" to another thread.If you want to close this topic, click "Contact Us" above and one of the Mods will doubtless accommodate you.Lehi
Gervin Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Which is, like your Spaulding mangle, entirely irrelevant. The point is that the Book of Mormon explicitly states that there are and will be direct matches between its contents and the Bible, and explains why. For you to ignore what the book itself says on the matter, and then triumphantly produce a handful of such matches as if they supported your knee-jerk dismissal of the book, is an argument that fails in advance to even begin to impress anyone who can read.Why? Are you admitting that you are uninformed about the matters that Lehi brought to your attention?I'm simply pointing out that it is irrelevant. More impressive word matches have been found with Leaves of Grass and the Heimskringla.But if you want to tie your credibility to the most-debunked theory of origins since the "dirty shirt" theory of abiogenesis, feel free.Regards,PahoranMy reaction is not knee-jerk and your hyperbole isn't persuasive.You believe that in 30 AD someone in America wrote a phrase (in an unknown language) that was abridged 300 years later (in an unknown language) then translated from plates 1500 years later (using an unknown method) into a phrase that reads exactly like a phrase written in Palestine in 100 AD (Koine Greek) and translated into English 1500 years later (by way of Latin). My comment is very relevant because you may try to pass off a "dog" in the Book of Mormon but that dog don't hunt as we used to say in Texas. Dogs find their way into the Book of Mormon by way of the Bible, if one follows the law of parsimony. You believe the Book of Mormon's best attestation of itself is its attestation of itself. I brought up Spalding because it's evident that Book of Mormon contains 18th and 19th century words and phrases. There is a preponderence of Spalding words in Alma compared to the rest of the Book of Mormon. That's a fact that you can aknowledge without giving any creedance to Spalding-Book of Mormon conspiracies, though I doubt if you've bothered to even notice. Going on a hunch, I thought I'd see if the Alma verse contained any words that come from Spalding. I chose "dog" and "mangled" since they sort of jumped out at me. Lo and behold ... a festivus miracle.If there is a preponderence of Walt Whitman words any one particular book in the Book of Mormon, or if he also uses 'dog' and 'mangled' in some epic poem, please share.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 My reaction is not knee-jerk and your hyperbole isn't persuasive. What is surely not persuasive is any argument you have made in this thread, but hey, thanks for playing.I brought up Spalding because it's evident that Book of Mormon contains 18th and 19th century words and phrases.So it is claimed to be a translation and JS was familiar with words from the 18th and 19th century and you want us to believe this to be a strike against the BoM? How.... unpersuasive. There is a preponderence of Spalding words in Alma compared to the rest of the Book of Mormon.Whoopdie do. You are going to need to do better than this. I think you are over stating your case. I doubt you could show a preponderance. That's a fact that you can aknowledge without giving any creedance to Spalding-Book of Mormon conspiracies,And that is a "fact" that you can support with evidence? I would love to see it. though I doubt if you've bothered to even notice. Going on a hunch, I thought I'd see if the Alma verse contained any words that come from Spalding. I chose "dog" and "mangled" since they sort of jumped out at me. Lo and behold ... a festivus miracle.If there is a preponderence of Walt Whitman words any one particular book in the Book of Mormon, or if he also uses 'dog' and 'mangled' in some epic poem, please share.So using the words "Dog" and "Mangled" means that JS copied the idea from Spaulding? How utterly unconvincing. If anything you have a better chance of arguing that JS copied verses from the bible for his narrative. The Spaulding theory is one of the worst theories I have seen.
Bernard Gui Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I brought up Spalding because it's evident that Book of Mormon contains 18th and 19th century words and phrases. There is a preponderence of Spalding words in Alma compared to the rest of the Book of Mormon. That's a fact that you can aknowledge without giving any creedance to Spalding-Book of Mormon conspiracies, though I doubt if you've bothered to even notice. Going on a hunch, I thought I'd see if the Alma verse contained any words that come from Spalding. I chose "dog" and "mangled" since they sort of jumped out at me. Lo and behold ... a festivus miracle.Here are some Spalding words that are not found in the Book of Mormon. This must mean he orhis surrogate had nothing to do with the Book of Mormon.........PLACE NAMESAsiaBritainConeaught RiverDeliwah RiverGamba (city)Geheno (plain where great battle was fought)Great Lakes of Erie and MichiganGreat MountainGreat RiverGreat River SuscowahLake OntarioLand of KentuckOhio (river)Owhahon (city)Plains of GehenoRiver KentuckSciota RiverTolanga (city)NAMES OF DEITYAlmighty ArchitectBenevolent SpiritDivine MercyGood BeingGreat and Good SpiritGreat AuthorGreat Benevolent SpiritGreat Father of SpiritsHeavenly HierarchyHigh Authority of HeavenHim Who Rules the WorldInfinite BenevolenceIntelligent Omnipotent BeingOmniscienceGreat Malignant SpiritPEOPLESCatarangus (nation)Deliwans (nation)EuropeansKentucks (nation)Michigan (nation)Ohians (nation)Roman EmpireSciotans (nation)TITLESEmpressGovernment of KentuckGreat Oracle (title of Lobaska)Mr. PhilosopherPrincePrincessYour HighnessYour Most Excellent MajestyPERSONAL NAMESBithawan (Sciotan councilman)Boakin (Sciotan councilman)Bombal (king of Kentucks)ConstantineCousin ElseonCrito (Roman)Drofalick (chief prophet of Sciotia)Droll Tom (Roman)Elseon (Kentuck prince, loves Lamesa)Fabius (Roman)Gamanko (Sciotan councilman)Habolan (King of Chiauga)Hadokam (king of Scotia)Hamback (son of Lobaska)Hamboon (King of Kentuck, father of Elseon)Hamelick (Sciotan general)Hamko (Kentuck leader)Hamkol (Sciotan councilman)Hamul (councilor to Kentuck Emperor)Helicon (friend of Elseon)Heliza (friend of Lamesa)Jeshuran (Old Testament name used in a cliche)Kalo (High Priest)Kelsock (Kentuck leader)Labamack (son of Lobaska)Labanco (Kentuck ambassador)Lakoonrod (Sciotan High Priest)Lambon (High Priest, son of Lobaska)Lamesa (daughter of the Emperor)Lobaska (Ohian leader, introduced writing, science, and religion)Lucian (Roman)Moonrod (son of the Emperor)Nunapon (the King of Catarangus)Queen of ScotiaRamack (the King of Geneseo)Rambock (14th Emperor of Scotia)Rankoff (Sciotan general)Sabamah (Sciotan general)Sambal (King of Scotia, wants Lamesa, too)Taboon (councilor to Kentuck Emperor)Trojanus (Roman)Ulipoom (King of Michigan)Baska (great visitor from the west)OTHERBattle of GehenoChaosDeclaration of WarFuriesPlatonic SystemSacred RollSeptemberSpringThe Blue FeatherThrone of OmnipotenceBernard Edited August 23, 2011 by Bernard Gui
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