KevinG Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) On another thread posters claimed that the doctrine of Apostacy, our Missionary work and individual Mormon hot heads bashing on other boards all justifiy anti-mormon ministries and directed opposition to the LDS Church and professional and amateur efforts to oppose Mormonism.What do you think? Edited July 7, 2011 by DaddyG
Honorentheos Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 I would not say they justify anti-mormon ministries. But I would add two points, since this thread is a continuation of our discussion elsewhere.First, from the perspective of non-Mormon Christians, the idea of proselytizing Christians out of their church and into the LDS faith is not a benign gesture. It is fraught with implications.Second, while the missionary program may not be particularly hostile to other faiths, having served a mission I would argue that the average 19-22 year old missionary is very inclined to become anti-opposition. And in most cases, the opposition is the dominant religion in the region they serve in. At a global scale, one could argue the missionary program takes on the traits of being anti-everyone else.
Doctor Ninja Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 At a global scale, one could argue the missionary program takes on the traits of being anti-everyone else.At a universal scale, one could argue the missionary program takes on the traits of being pro-everyone else. After-all, isn't that what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about? To save ALL of God's children?
Honorentheos Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 At a universal scale, one could argue the missionary program takes on the traits of being pro-everyone else. After-all, isn't that what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about? To save ALL of God's children?From your point of view, sure.But from other's points of view, anti-Mormon ministries are saving souls and a great thing.
Doctor Ninja Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 is not a benign gesture.Yep, that's right. You receive cancer when you join. BEWARE you "gullible Christians"!
Doctor Ninja Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 From your point of view, sure.But from other's points of view, anti-Mormon ministries are saving souls and a great thing.How do they have time for that? They are too focused on being anti-Mormons. 3
Honorentheos Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Yep, that's right. You receive cancer when you join. BEWARE you "gullible Christians"!BenignYou're welcome.
frankenstein Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 On another thread posters claimed that the doctrine of Apostacy, our Missionary work and individual Mormon hot heads bashing on other boards all justifiy anti-mormon ministries and directed opposition to the LDS Church and professional and amateur efforts to oppose Mormonism.What do you think?There must needs be opposition in all things. However, I have read the same claims from LDS who claim to be defenders, that is claims that the manner in which a LDS person is treated by anti-mormons justfies and like response. I don't think either are justified, though I am sure both sides like the claim Jesus rebuking as justification for their own distasteful, rude, crass, or otherwise vulgar manner.
Doctor Ninja Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 BenignYou're welcome.Man, I guess I am only funny in person. My line of work when I hear that word, but thank you.
Honorentheos Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Man, I guess I am only funny in person. My line of work when I hear that word, but thank you.There's a reason the internet gods made smilies. See?
shalamabobbi Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Matthew 10:34, 35We should all ignore the words of Jesus, get together to sing kumbaya and worship George Harrison instead..
Storm Rider Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 On another thread posters claimed that the doctrine of Apostacy, our Missionary work and individual Mormon hot heads bashing on other boards all justifiy anti-mormon ministries and directed opposition to the LDS Church and professional and amateur efforts to oppose Mormonism.What do you think?Missionary work, regardless of who is doing it, is vastly different from any form of "anti" based activity. One seeks to proclaim truth as they see it; the other is focused on destroying the beliefs of another. They are completely juxtaposed! I reject anti-Catholic and anti-Islam literature just as readily as I reject anti-Mormon literature. Most of it is written in ignorance of the topic, using the worst forms of propaganda, and does little to lead anyone to truth. I find that the Spirit of Christ is not found in any of this type of activity. In truth, I say they fulfil the work of the Evil one and he is their master.The objective is for us to become one in the faith. I am not sure that means we all become members of one Church, but rather we are bound in our belief in Christ and his mission as Savior, Redeemer, and Lord. The Kingdom's doors will be open to all and all will have the opportunity to receive all the saving ordinances of Christ's gospel.
Jeff K. Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 I worked in a Catholic country, at the same time there were evangelical Baptists and Jehovah's witnesses. One can note, based on the logic presented that all churches that seek converts are anti-everyone else. I note for example that during my mission, Baptists were often speaking poorly of Catholics and Jehovah's witnesses (as well as Mormons). Our policy was never to bring up the other churchs in conversation, because we are sharing out doctrines not our differences. The focus being doctrine of Christ and our testimonies. One can interpret that as an "anti-something else" policy, but I believe it is stretching the issue.Anti-Mormons however do not stress our doctrines that much. What they stress is the differences in our doctrines compared to others. What they stress is the flaws in persons both real and imagined in order to prove doctrine false. What they do not stress is what they have to offer.I think the goals and actions are very different.
blueadept Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 I worked in a Catholic country, at the same time there were evangelical Baptists and Jehovah's witnesses. One can note, based on the logic presented that all churches that seek converts are anti-everyone else. I note for example that during my mission, Baptists were often speaking poorly of Catholics and Jehovah's witnesses (as well as Mormons). Our policy was never to bring up the other churchs in conversation, because we are sharing out doctrines not our differences. The focus being doctrine of Christ and our testimonies. One can interpret that as an "anti-something else" policy, but I believe it is stretching the issue.Anti-Mormons however do not stress our doctrines that much. What they stress is the differences in our doctrines compared to others. What they stress is the flaws in persons both real and imagined in order to prove doctrine false. What they do not stress is what they have to offer.I think the goals and actions are very different.Overall, nice post Jeff With Catholicism tending to be a dominant religion in many areas, I'll give LDS missionaries a good grade in not being too anti towards other faiths. IMO, there's not much need since the investigators are normally clueless about their faith they've grown up with and can supply all the necessary negativity. I've met a few LDS missionaries who were once upon a time Catholics. I haven't been too impressed with their working knowledge of their previous religion. I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be too impressed with many of the investigators that the LDS missionaries (and other missionaries) engage with, but I prefer the LDS approach versus other religions. Kudos for that.When I've done door-to-door evangelizing, is it any wonder my top group to engage is 'fallen-away Catholics?' I don't mind engaging other faiths in my community but that's not where the 'low hanging fruit' is IMHO.
Jeff K. Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Our efforts in one area did make at least one Catholic more Catholic than before. You are right that many who wish are seeking something tend to be without a strong foundation in their church, they may have grown disaffected, or perhaps their church was not meeting their needs when they were young or as adults. As missionaries we offer our testimony and the church is geared toward family, not simply strengthening a family, but also creating a ward family. That ward family does much to help those that are disaffected. The Catholic church could learn much in regard to dealing with the individual in such a way. But, as we were teaching this individual he wondered about his own church's doctrine and so began searching it out also. He became friends with the parish priest and the priest himself while not endorsing the Mormon church, did not seek to paint us as sons of satin either. Eventually he decided to become more active in his church.From my point of view, I considered our part to be helping someone become a better man, even if he never embraced the gospel, he did live better and became a help to neighbors. I would have liked him to join our church, very much so, but it wasn't to be (at least not yet, and perhaps not even in this life, he may choose to join at another time).My point is that competition of a sorts does not make one anti. The priest did not say we were evil, or of the devil, indeed, he said our church was a good church with good people, just the wrong doctrine. I would never consider such a priest anti-Mormon, nor, I hope would the priest consider me anti-Catholic. We disagree on doctrine and authority, but our goals are to show the love of Christ in the best way we can when discussing Christ, and not discussing each other. Edited July 7, 2011 by Jeff K.
thesometimesaint Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 I think that even taken at its worst two wrongs never equal a right.
blueadept Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 But, as we were teaching this individual he wondered about his own church's doctrine and so began searching it out also. He became friends with the parish priest and the priest himself while not endorsing the Mormon church, did not seek to paint us as sons of satin either. Eventually he decided to become more active in his church.That's my personal story as well when people ask why I'm the Catholic that I am. I always thank my LDS wife in allowing me to figure out what I was leaving prior to consideration for joining the LDS church after having all the LDS missionary lessons. Good stuff.
blueadept Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Jeff,Thanks for your thoughts about LDS ward families and such and how that approach can be beneficial for consideration in the Catholic Church. I'll be in a position to create such a group within our community that branches off some of my new duties I'll be acquiring towards the end of the year. I appreciate the input.
Deborah Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Missionary work, regardless of who is doing it, is vastly different from any form of "anti" based activity. One seeks to proclaim truth as they see it; the other is focused on destroying the beliefs of another. This is how I see it. Even the JW's go to teach what they believe, but anti's preach against anyone who disagrees with them, usually as you say with false information and without focusing on what they believe.
Hughes Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 The claim in the other thread was, "DaddyG, on 04 July 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:You have it backwards. LDS did not try to define other peoples view of truth, revelation or knowledge in the OP. It was the other way around. "Yet this is exactly what the LDS missionaries do. If you are apart of another church, "We missionaries are here to tell you the truth, that your church is apostate and false." Period. How is that not anti-(insert other religion here)?
altersteve Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 The claim in the other thread was, "DaddyG, on 04 July 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:You have it backwards. LDS did not try to define other peoples view of truth, revelation or knowledge in the OP. It was the other way around. "Yet this is exactly what the LDS missionaries do. If you are apart of another church, "We missionaries are here to tell you the truth, that your church is apostate and false." Period. How is that not anti-(insert other religion here)?To be anti-(insert other religion here) is to belittle, mock, and insult another religion. Latter-day Saints do not do that, nor do we believe that all other churches are "apostate and false." We believe that God is in all religions, that every religion and philosophy on the face of the earth has at least a portion of the truth, and that all the great religious leaders were raised up by God for a specific purpose. I would hope that no LDS missionary would ever said, "Your church is apostate and false." I better never hear a Latter-day Saint say that.Either way, though, calling somebody's religion "apostate and false" is not the same as defining their beliefs for them. To do that would be saying, "You believe such-and-such," which Latter-day Saints do not and, I hope, will not do either. 2
KevinG Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 This thread has raised a couple more misconceptions that may explain the justifications of anti-mormon ministries.1) The primary job of the missionaries is not to convert. It is to teach. Conversion is done by the Spirit not the missionaries. The LDS missionary is not out to "steal sheep" from other flocks.2) The LDS have no ministry geared at another religion. Our missionaries don't learn how to "witness" to Catholics, Evangelicals or Hindus for that matter. A dear friend who served a mission in Korea was quite surprised when he got into the mission and started dealing with the non-Chrisitan culture and their assumptions. He said he had to start as a much more basic level about Christ.Our teaching that the LDS Church is true being "anti-everything else" is sort of like this.I like Rocky Road ice cream and tell everyone how good it is. Therefore I'm anti-the other 31 flavors?That just doesn't make sense. 1
Jeff K. Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 I like Rocky Road ice cream and tell everyone how good it is. Therefore I'm anti-the other 31 flavors?That just doesn't make sense.It sure doesn't when chunky monkey is available....
frankenstein Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 It sure doesn't when chunky monkey is available....Unless you eating Blue Bell ice cream whatever ice cream you have is false.
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