Moses

[jskains]

To me if Moses can be proven a fake, all of Christianity dies with it.

http://atheisttoolbox.com/bible_facts.php?fact_id=36

Thoughts?

JMS

[Jeff K.]

Then you have very low standards of proof and probably change your mind with the same rapidity I change my underwear. Lack of proof is not the same as proof. The article shows a lack of proof, not a lack of existence.

[Arkholt]

One problem with this type of thing is that the stories of the Bible are so ingrained in our culture that we forget how small and insignificant Israel was back then, especially compared to the many large empires surrounding them. That we have few records of them outside of the Bible isn't surprising.

[Jeff K.]

Some critiques of the article....

We have no historical record outside of the Old Testament for a man called Moses leading a large group of Israelites out of Egypt.

For years the story of Moses and Exodus was deemed fake by some groups because no chariots were found, though they were mentioned in the Moses account. A few years ago, wow, they discovered chariots. It does not mean Moses existed, it is simply another piece of the puzzle.

This is particularly odd considering the fact that the Egyptians would generally have recorded such a mass exodus of slaves which would have impeded their building efforts.

Egyptian pharoahs were known to fake records. Make losses wins and even "overlook" bad years. An example of this can be found regarding the controversy in the Battle of Kadesh...

Christian apologetics argue that the Egyptians would not have recorded such an event because they would have been embarrassed by this diplomatic defeat. This is highly unlikely considering the fact that there would have been 2.5 - 3 million Israelites leaving Egypt at once based on an extrapolation of Numbers 1:46.

Losing a major battle and a retreat all the way back to Egypt? If only one power in contention in a nation or empire "writes" (and history exists only so long as people write, prewritten epochs are called prehistory) the presumed facts, then only those facts are presented to future generations. Apparently the author is not a historian or archeologist.

In addition as Moses was in essence an Egyptian prince, he would have been mentioned in their royal records. So where did this story come from? According to Hebrew scholars the first five books of the Bible were produced by a scribe (possibly Ezra) around the 5th century BCE.

While we have presumed lineage, we do not have the recorded names of all princes, of all offspring from Hittite dimplomatic ventures, nor do we have everyone who has fallen in disfavor and been rejected from the various royal families. Now does the author provide a consistent and accurate record? No, he points to one individual instance and states "see if his name isn't recorded, then he did not exist". Amazing. Even Superman cannot make such gigantic leaps.

OK, that was a cursory look at the first few sentences, and I have a ton of things to do this morning. Needless to say, do not be swayed and tossed about like a loose leaf in the wind. If you think about things a bit, you will be more apt to see past weak links that others attempt to use as your chains.

[alter idem]

To me if Moses can be proven a fake, all of Christianity dies with it.

http://atheisttoolbox.com/bible_facts.php?fact_id=36

Thoughts?

JMS

I don't know how Moses could ever be 'proven' a fake. I think critics can certainly put forth theories that he never existed, but prove it? Not possible 4,000 years later.

[LeSellers]

I don't know how Moses could ever be 'proven' a fake. I think critics can certainly put forth theories that he never existed, but prove it? Not possible 4,000 years later.

Let's recall, too, that there are modern witnesses to Moses' existence. Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith saw him in Kirtland in 1836. Two witnesses ought to settle the matter.

Lehi

[thesometimesaint]

Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. In archaeology we're always one shovel full of dirt from that evidence.

[jskains]

But it seems a growing number of Biblical Scholars do not believe Exodus actually occurred, stating Anachronisms and flaws in Archeological evidence for the areas and time frames..... Though do we as a society give Archeology more power than it really has?

JMS

[katherine the great]

To me if Moses can be proven a fake, all of Christianity dies with it.

http://atheisttoolbox.com/bible_facts.php?fact_id=36

Thoughts?

JMS

It might be harmful to Judaism and Christianity but it isn't going to happen.

[katherine the great]

But it seems a growing number of Biblical Scholars do not believe Exodus actually occurred, stating Anachronisms and flaws in Archeological evidence for the areas and time frames..... Though do we as a society give Archeology more power than it really has?

JMS

Archaeology doesn't support the exodus happening in the way it is written but there is some evidence to support a migration of many people over time.

[Robert F. Smith]

Archaeology doesn't support the exodus happening in the way it is written but there is some evidence to support a migration of many people over time.

Or, perhaps, a large number all at once, but much earlier than we are normally taught.

A number of scholars have accepted the notion that the Exodus of the Bible is (at least partially) a description of the great exodus of the Canaanite Hyksos in about 1540 B.C.

The Hyksos ruled Lower Egypt as the 14th and 15th dynasties for hundreds of years, until expelled by King Ahmose from Upper Egypt. I explain the circumstances in my paper "Moses Our Teacher" HERE.