Sixty-Two Percent Of Americans Reject Gay-Marriage Dogma

[Mordecai]

I welcome the next political contest. Last time in California, "gay marriage" was winning in the polls, and those with common sense won by 4 points. Across the country, "gay marriage" is still rejected by America by a large margin. We need to have this debate over and over, until we, as a nation, purge the dogma that a gay union is the same as a straight union from our political system: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/06/16/3706250/new-survey-shows-62-percent-of.html

People might like this also, which is linked to the Sacramento Bee article: http://www.frc.org/marriage

[california boy]

I welcome the next political contest. Last time in California, "gay marriage" was winning in the polls, and those with common sense won by 4 points. Across the country, "gay marriage" is still rejected by America by a large margin. We need to have this debate over and over, until we, as a nation, purge the dogma that a gay union is the same as a straight union from our political system: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/06/16/3706250/new-survey-shows-62-percent-of.html

People might like this also, which is linked to the Sacramento Bee article: http://www.frc.org/marriage

Too bad Family Research Council has absolutely no credility. No data on the age group they contacted, how the obtained the random samples, how broad the survey was done etc. Good headline, but no facts to support their claim. I think most people are going to go with the normal well recognized polling services. Did you click on the link in the Sacramento Bee article provided by Family Research Council? You do realize the source of the article is not a reporter for the Sacramento Bee, but Family Research Council. This is just PR by a group that loves to distort facts and spin to try and convince others of their agenda. No credible argument to be found. Sorry. Nothing to see here. Move on.

[Mordecai]

Too bad Family Research Council has absolutely no credility.

http://oldsite.alliancedefensefund.org/userdocs/ADF-POS_Survey_Results_Summary.pdf Sorry to disappoint you, but this was a national survey, and we win by a landslide. Only 35% disagreed.

"Public Opinion Strategies is a nationally-known public opinion research firm." This isn't about FRC, as you imagine. It was done by a research firm. Did you really think "gay marriage" would gain 9 points in one year? I thought that was suspicious. Clearly, that was the left trying to trick us again. This is the real deal. Just like before prop. 8, our side had the right numbers. Your side had the wrong ones.

[frankenstein]

a religiously biased "defense fund" funds research that is done by a religiously biased religious organization....so what should we trust the research.

And pew research (6,000 participants nationally as opposed to 1500 from the FRC) hows the numbers as 42% in favor and 48% opposed. I'll take the less suspect numbers.

[Mordecai]

And pew research (6,000 participants nationally as opposed to 1500 from the FRC) hows the numbers as 42% in favor and 48% opposed. I'll take the less suspect numbers.

As I said, prior to the prop. 8 election, the secular numbers were the wrong numbers. Protect Marriage, on the other hand, had accurate numbers and the election proved it. The nationally recognized organization that did this poll, POS, isn't known for fraud, is it? Plus, even if they were religious (and I don't think they are), why would that mean that they are automatically liars. If so, you surely have evidence of that. From my experience, it's the secularists that are the manipulators. Jerry Brown preventing prop. 8 from being called "The Protect Marriage Act" and inserting, "This proposition takes away the right of gay people to marry," on the ballot represent good examples.

Since when have religious organizations gone out to trick people on public opinion anyway? Where did you get that idea? The last lefty poll magically had "gay marriage" jump up 9 points in only a year. Really? That wasn't "suspect" to you? Please.

[Jeff K.]

Needless to say, there is no overwhelming consensus that still must fine its way through the electorate, not necessarily the courts. The advocates of changing the meaning of marriage cannot seem to articulate their vision in a positive way. They are left to loopholes and intimidation.

[bookofmormontruth]

I am actually surprised by the numbers.

I guess I have been heavily indoctrinated by the media and the gay agenda that everyone and their dog supported gay marriage.

[erichard]

I am actually surprised by the numbers.

I guess I have been heavily indoctrinated by the media and the gay agenda that everyone and their dog supported gay marriage.

All gay people exist because their parents chose to not be gay. It is an ironic position.

Gays (not all of course) seek to pull others into their life style, and to normalize their life style, and yet if everyone became like them the human race would die out.

If Gays care about the future of humanity, they must have a certain amount of sympathy for heterosexual people.

I think that "certain amount" includes accepting that heterosexual marriage unions are not the same as homosexual unions. They need to give it up.

Richard

[california boy]

http://oldsite.alliancedefensefund.org/userdocs/ADF-POS_Survey_Results_Summary.pdf Sorry to disappoint you, but this was a national survey, and we win by a landslide. Only 35% disagreed.

"Public Opinion Strategies is a nationally-known public opinion research firm." This isn't about FRC, as you imagine. It was done by a research firm. Did you really think "gay marriage" would gain 9 points in one year? I thought that was suspicious. Clearly, that was the left trying to trick us again. This is the real deal. Just like before prop. 8, our side had the right numbers. Your side had the wrong ones.

I have no problem with you trying to believe this poll that counters EVERY other nationally respected polling service in the country. If it has credibility to you and you think all the other polling services are some how controled by some agenda, then be my guest. Personally I think most reasonable people will dismiss this one pole sponsored by the Family Research Counsel. If you can show a trend and more mainstreem polling services show the same results, then I will believe in their credibility. Now doesn't that sound like a reasonable approach?

[california boy]

All gay people exist because their parents chose to not be gay. It is an ironic position.

Gays (not all of course) seek to pull others into their life style, and to normalize their life style, and yet if everyone became like them the human race would die out.

If Gays care about the future of humanity, they must have a certain amount of sympathy for heterosexual people.

I think that "certain amount" includes accepting that heterosexual marriage unions are not the same as homosexual unions. They need to give it up.

Richard

I think you are confusing gays seeking to pull others into their life style with heterosexuals who seek to pull gays into their life style. After all, I have yet to read about supposed therapists trying to cure the straight out of someone. Or gays trying to pray the straight out of someone.

Straight indoctrination is found in the churches, the movies, schools and virtually every aspect of society. It is time the gays of the world stand up and say enough. We won't be indoctrinated any more. Gays of the world unite to suppress this heterosexual indoctrination agenda.

If straight people want to stop gays they should stop having gay children. And btw, some of my best friends and family members are heterosexual.

If you think this issue is going to go away, you are sadly mistaken. It is too important of issue. You certainly would not ask straight people to no longer want to get married would you?

[Mordecai]

Now doesn't that sound like a reasonable approach?

The other polls I've seen are loaded in favor of "gay marriage." For example, they won't give people a choice between "gay marriage" and "civil unions," or they'll ask questions that represent propaganda prior to the question about "gay marriage." I do trust this poll, in fact, especially since only one year ago, the numbers looked about like this. I think common sense is holding steady for now, instead of left-wing group-think.

[california boy]

The other polls I've seen are loaded in favor of "gay marriage." For example, they won't give people a choice between "gay marriage" and "civil unions," or they'll ask questions that represent propaganda prior to the question about "gay marriage." I do trust this poll, in fact, especially since only one year ago, the numbers looked about like this. I think common sense is holding steady for now, instead of left-wing group-think.

Well you go guy. Believe this poll if you like. And believe all the other things the Family Research Counsel promotes if it makes you feel better.

[Daniel2]

If there's one thing Mormonism taught me, it's not to rely on the majority of public opinion, even for things that are true or right.

Even though I don't trust the source of this poll, especially in light of numerous other independant polls in the last six months, and even though it's nice to think that the majority of Americans support same sex-couple's right to civillly marry, if the SCOTUS rules that there is a civil right to same-sex marriage, then the majority of public opinion is irrelevant--just as public opinion was irrelevant when SCOTUS issued it's ruling on Loving vs. Virginia and public polls showed 70% of Americans at the time were opposed to interracial marriage.

Daniel2

[frankenstein]

As I said, prior to the prop. 8 election, the secular numbers were the wrong numbers. Protect Marriage, on the other hand, had accurate numbers and the election proved it. The nationally recognized organization that did this poll, POS, isn't known for fraud, is it? Plus, even if they were religious (and I don't think they are), why would that mean that they are automatically liars. If so, you surely have evidence of that. From my experience, it's the secularists that are the manipulators. Jerry Brown preventing prop. 8 from being called "The Protect Marriage Act" and inserting, "This proposition takes away the right of gay people to marry," on the ballot represent good examples.

Since when have religious organizations gone out to trick people on public opinion anyway? Where did you get that idea? The last lefty poll magically had "gay marriage" jump up 9 points in only a year. Really? That wasn't "suspect" to you? Please.

follow the money, Alliance Defense Fund - funded the poll - ADF is the religious equivalent of the ACLU, and we know how much the ACLU can not be trusted, so why should we trust its religious opposite?

The persons asking for and funding the poll are suspect, they produce a poll, which does not reflect other polls, and the ADF/FRC poll just happens to promoted their own agenda? There is good reason to suspect the poll. Unless you can show that PEW has a gay agenda then I'll stick with PEW and its 6000 participants.

and if you look at POS Client, Campaign, Political Parties, its all republican. Though if you look at POS, Client, Association and Issue groups, you find La Raza.

[Jaybear]

I find the polls on this subject interesting for several reasons:

1. They show a remarkable trend towards greater acceptance of gay marriage.

2. They reflect the stark contrast between the views of those under 30 and over 50.

3. The tight correlation between religious belief and intolerance to gay rights.

I don't look to the polls to validate my opinion. I am not a fan of putting civil rights to a vote.

So the fact that poll shows that 62% oppose gay marriage, simply means that gay rights activist have much more work to do.

[T-Shirt]

3. The tight correlation between religious belief and intolerance to gay rights.

What are "gay rights"? Are there straight rights, as well? What is the difference?

T-Shirt

[Walden]

All gay people exist because their parents chose to not be gay. It is an ironic position.

Gays (not all of course) seek to pull others into their life style, and to normalize their life style, and yet if everyone became like them the human race would die out.

If Gays care about the future of humanity, they must have a certain amount of sympathy for heterosexual people.

I think that "certain amount" includes accepting that heterosexual marriage unions are not the same as homosexual unions. They need to give it up.

Richard

Please, overpopulation is a much greater threat to humanity than gay unions.....and yet most LDS teachings on the topic of family size encourage parents to have as many kids as they can support, without any thought given to the pressures that large family size imposes on the planet and it's resources. If you can argue that "If Gays care about the future of humanity, they must have a certain amount of sympathy for heterosexual people," and your argument is based on concern for the "future of humanity" than I will wait for your post which states "If mormons care about the future of humanity, they must have a certain amount of sympathy towards the global impact of having huge families."

And with regard to the argument that gay unions are not the same as heterosexual unions.....I am sure that my heterosexual marriage is much different than your heterosexual marriage. My marriage was not performed in an LDS temple, the ceremony had no mention of god, religion or divinity, our marital activities are not restriced by church oversite, etc. My marriage is likely much different than yours; in fact, likely the main commonality that our marriages share is that we can biologically reproduce. Other than that, I am sure that my marriage is much different than the common LDS marriage. So, is being able to reproduce your standard for who should be allowed to marry?

[Mordecai]

Please, overpopulation is a much greater threat to humanity...

So said Malthus. Who cares what the liberals are saying these days and have said for a good 100 years? Mankind self-corrects, in large part, to survive. Large populations sizes in the U.S. are not a problem at all, if you compare us to China. We have much more land and less than 1/3 the population. In Europe, the population size is decreasing and therefore, aging, in fact. They're in serious danger, in that respect, far more than any country in the world is in with overpopulation.

And with regard to the argument that gay unions are not the same as heterosexual unions.....I am sure that my heterosexual marriage is much different than your heterosexual marriage...

Right. But the gov't isn't declaring their differences to be the same, either. Regardless, we're talking about marriage in principle, as in the very definition. Just because one apple is different from other apples, doesn't mean that we might as well start calling oranges, "apples."

The differences between a real marriage and a gay union include the fact that there is always a 100% chance of at least one biological parent being absent. Furthermore, real marriage has been selected by cultural evolution in all of the civilized world. Cultural evolution and nature are above the gov't. Bad things happen, when man thinks he can put himself or his government above Nature.

[Mordecai]

So the fact that poll shows that 62% oppose gay marriage, simply means that gay rights activist have much more [indoctrination of other people's children] to do.

I fixed it. No need to thank me.

[Hestia]

I fixed it. No need to thank me.

Per Board Guides: Altering members quotes on the board

state your disagreement without altering someone else's quote. After all we'd like to be reminded of their original remark.

[Zeta-Flux]

From my point of view:

Many people here have claimed the poll is unbelievable. They have not presented any evidence of this bold claim, and instead have relied on well-poisoning and other absurdities.

Mordecai has brought up at least one reasonable sounding explanation for the discrepancy between this poll and the other ones: different questions were asked. It appears that a large majority of people are against gay-marriage, but not against civil unions. Is that surprising?

[frankenstein]

I will retract my complaint about the numbers of person poled, but will maintain that poll is suspect because of the funding.

however, to Zeta-flux point, here one can find results from various polls which ask about gay marriage,

gallup poll ""Do you think marriages between same-sex couples should or should not be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages?"

cnn poll ""Do you think marriages between gay and lesbian couples should or should not be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages?"

abc ""Do you think it should be legal or illegal for gay and lesbian couples to get married?"

pew "Do you strongly favor, favor, oppose, or strongly oppose allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally?"

[erichard]

Please, overpopulation is a much greater threat to humanity than gay unions....

....So, is being able to reproduce your standard for who should be allowed to marry?

Hi Walden,

This is my solution to overpopulation: Zion and its laws.

The world today has much more population living with plenty than was thought possible before today's better technology and a modern system existed.

Even if you do not believe in the coming of Zion, surely you realize that seeking for an even better system is the best answer. Trying to "force" people to change always backfires.

The Mormon scriptures teach that it is lawful for all men to have a wife. It does not say only Temple marriages are lawful. I personally believe one should NOT get a license from the present government. Today's civil laws of marriage and divorce are abominable. If they add homosexual unions to the present laws of marriage they will be even more abominable.

Oh, and I liked Mordecai's answer: "Just because one apple is different from another apples, doesn't mean that we might as well start calling oranges, "apples."

Richard

[Mordecai]

I will retract my complaint about the numbers of person poled, but will maintain that poll is suspect because of the funding.

Who funded the other polls? Were they for or against SSM? For all you know POS is for SSM, but they did the poll correctly anyway. Just because they were paid by people whose interest is in protecting marriage, doesn't meant that the organization is corrupt.

[Mordecai]

state your disagreement without altering someone else's quote. After all we'd like to be reminded of their original remark.

As an English major, I object to this, seeing as brackets indicate that you aren't quoting the person. That said, I will follow the rule anyway.