Priestcraft?

[inquiringmind]

What exactly is priestcraft?

[Nathair/|\]

29He commandeth that there shall be no ^apriestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set ^bthemselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get ^cgain and ^dpraise of the world; but they seek not the ^ewelfare of Zion. 2 Nephi 26:29

[Calm]

I think the scripture Nathair posted makes it clear that simply getting a salary for being a pastor or preacher does not automatically equate to "priestcraft". The scriptures also talk about a servant being worthy of his hire. If an individual chooses to become a pastor for the purpose of serving others and makes it a career, then there is nothing inherently wrong with them getting paid for it (though it can create difficulties when one is solely dependent on others' good will for support when one is teaching the Gospel). It is when the purpose is to get personal gain and praise of the world, not to sincerely help others or to lead them to God (even if one is wrong about some of the things they are teaching about God and how to seek him).

[Whiskeypete]

I know of many pastors who get paid for their services and I would not consider it priestcraft. There is a very different structure in their churches than in ours, and it really is a full time - all day, every day - type position. Imagine if our bishops had to write an hour long sermon every week, plan the youth activities, do the home teaching, handling fundraising activities, etc., etc., while counting on the generosity of the members to provide enough funds for his home, food, family, etc.

While I believe that our lay priesthood is the way the Lord intends it to be, especially in giving all of the members an opportunity to serve, I don't question the motives of most of the priests, pastors and other clergy in other faiths.

Now the charlatans out there like Benny Hine, Peter Popoff... I think there will be a very special meeting planned for them when they get to meet the savior. I recommend that they dress for very hot weather.

[zerinus]

I think the scripture Nathair posted makes it clear that simply getting a salary for being a pastor or preacher does not automatically equate to "priestcraft". The scriptures also talk about a servant being worthy of his hire. If an individual chooses to become a pastor for the purpose of serving others and makes it a career, then there is nothing inherently wrong with them getting paid for it (though it can create difficulties when one is solely dependent on others' good will for support when one is teaching the Gospel). It is when the purpose is to get personal gain and praise of the world, not to sincerely help others or to lead them to God (even if one is wrong about some of the things they are teaching about God and how to seek him).

I know of many pastors who get paid for their services and I would not consider it priestcraft. There is a very different structure in their churches than in ours, and it really is a full time - all day, every day - type position. Imagine if our bishops had to write an hour long sermon every week, plan the youth activities, do the home teaching, handling fundraising activities, etc., etc., while counting on the generosity of the members to provide enough funds for his home, food, family, etc.

While I believe that our lay priesthood is the way the Lord intends it to be, especially in giving all of the members an opportunity to serve, I don't question the motives of most of the priests, pastors and other clergy in other faiths.

Now the charlatans out there like Benny Hine, Peter Popoff... I think there will be a very special meeting planned for them when they get to meet the savior. I recommend that they dress for very hot weather.

While in general I agree with the views expressed above, there are also other factors to be considered, such as expressed here:

Mosiah 18

:

26 And the priests were not to depend upon the people for their support; but for their labor they were to receive

the grace of God, that they might wax strong in the Spirit, having the knowledge of God, that they might teach with power and authority from God

.

I think there is something wrong when somebody chooses a “clerical career” for themselves. It often means that they are not good at doing anything else. It is the only way they know of making a living. Which often means that they are not going to be very good at that job either. The highlighted part in the above verse is very revealing. The spiritual blessings I have received as a result of my callings in the Church far outweigh any temporal gain I might have received, even if I had been paid millions of dollars for it. I wouldn’t trade the one for the other. But that spiritual reward is dependent on serving the Lord gratis—according to that verse. You can only be paid in the Church one way—temporally or spiritually. If you opt for a temporal compensation, the spiritual compensation will be withheld.

Of course, there are also people in the Church who of necessity have to devote their full time to the service of the Church, and therefore their expenses need to be met. But these people did not choose a “clerical profession” for themselves; they were appointed to that position by revelation from the Lord. Very often they turn out to have been very successful in their professional lives, and accepting the full time calling means a reduction in their standard of living. They didn’t choose a “clerical profession” for themselves because that is the only way they knew of how to make a living!

[Calm]

While in general I agree with the views expressed above, there are also other factors to be considered, such as expressed here:

Mosiah 18

:

26 And the priests were not to depend upon the people for their support; but for their labor they were to receive

the grace of God, that they might wax strong in the Spirit, having the knowledge of God, that they might teach with power and authority from God

.

I think there is something wrong when somebody chooses a “clerical career” for themselves. It often means that they are not good at doing anything else.

Once upon a time, third sons or younger were chosen to go into the Church probably for the reason the family didn't have enough money to support them, but I highly doubt in this day and age that someone who is lazy or not good at doing other things chooses such a career. It is hard work with lots of demands on one from a variety of people you will likely never all satisfy.

You sound like some of the anti-mormons who make claims that Joseph Smith did all that work with the Book of Mormon and creating a church because he was lazy and didn't want to work for a living.

[Duncan]

like %50 of what they sell at DeseretBook

[MDalby]

Here are the quotes that I have compiled to try to review on a pretty frequent basis.

When the Twelve or any other witnesses stand before the congregations of the earth, and they preach in the power and demonstration of the Spirit of God, and the people are astonished and confounded at the doctrine, and say, "That man has preached a powerful discourse, a great sermon," then let that man or those men take care that they do not ascribe the glory unto themselves, but be careful that they are humble, and ascribe the praise and glory to God and the Lamb; for it is by the power of the Holy Priesthood and the Holy Ghost that they have power thus to speak.

(Joseph Smith, HC, 3:384)

It is the leader's duty…to teach the member to love-not the leader or teacher, but the truth of the gospel.

(David O. McKay, IE 71 [Dec. 1968]:108).

But brothers and sisters, we must be careful to remember in our service that we are conduits and channels; we are not the light. “For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you” (Matthew 10:20). It is never about me and it is never about you. In fact, anything you or I do as an instructor that knowingly and intentionally draws attention to self—in the messages we present, in the methods we use, or in our personal demeanor—is a form of priestcraft that inhibits the teaching effectiveness of the Holy Ghost. “Doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? And if it be by some other way it is not of God” (D&C 50:17–18)

(Elder David Bednar, Seek Learning by Faith)

Be careful, be aware, be wise when people speak well of you. When people treat you with great respect and love, be careful, be aware, be wise. When you are honored, pointed out, and recognized, it can be a cross, especially if you believe what is said about you. . . . "Praise of the world can be a heavy cross. How often I have heard it said over the years, 'He was great until he became successful, and then he couldn't handle it.' I'm not talking about money and position. I'm talking about recognition, even in Church responsibilities. . . .

(Marvin J. Ashton)

I would pray that we would avoid being carried away by praise, success, or even achieving goals that we have set for ourselves" ("Carry Your Cross," Brigham Young University 1986–87 Devotional and Fireside Speeches [1987], 141).

Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion. [2 Nephi 26:29; see also Alma 1:16]

Priestcraft is not a sin that is committed solely on the basis of our desires because it involves acts. Those acts becomes sinful only when they are done with the wrong desire, to get gain or praise. The sin is in the desire, not in the act.

(Dallin H. Oaks, The Desires of Our Hearts")

[zerinus]

Once upon a time, third sons or younger were chosen to go into the Church probably for the reason the family didn't have enough money to support them, but I highly doubt in this day and age that someone who is lazy or not good at doing other things chooses such a career. It is hard work with lots of demands on one from a variety of people you will likely never all satisfy.

I am not suggesting that all those who go into the clerical profession are like that, but many of them are. It is like the teaching profession. There are some fantastic teachers around; but there are also some pretty awful ones. I have seen so many bad ones that I wouldn't be surprised if the bad ones outnumber the good ones. And the bad ones are usually those who aren't good at doing anything else. They choose the teaching profession because they think that is an easy job they can do; and they turn out to be not very good at that either.

You sound like some of the anti-mormons who make claims that Joseph Smith did all that work with the Book of Mormon and creating a church because he was lazy and didn't want to work for a living.

Interesting you should mention that. Anti-Mormonism is also a “profession” for some people. They become “anti-Mormons” because they that is the only thing they can do. They are not good at doing anything else. And believe it or not, they actually make money out of it—and a name and reputation, which they couldn’t obtain in any other way.