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The Current Prieshood Ban.


phaedrus ut

Priesthood ban  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the current priesthood ban on women in the priesthood doctrinal or just the policy of men?

    • Yes, it's official doctrine of the church.
    • No, it's just a policy.
  2. 2. Would you support allowing women full participation in the priesthood?



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It's often mentioned now by defenders of the church that the priesthood ban on blacks wasn't ever doctrine but rather it was just a policy of man. I'm curious as to members opinions on the remaining priesthood ban on women in the church. Is it official doctrine or is it just the policy of men?

And with that would you support overturning the policy and allowing women to hold the priesthood and serve in priesthood and hold all positions leadership of the church?

Phaedrus

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I replied to this in regards to my church affiliation... The Priesthood of God is the power of God given to men to administer His ordinances. I would not support giving women the Priesthood. (As evidenced by my association with the Restoration RLDS and not the Community of Christ)

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It's often mentioned now by defenders of the church that the priesthood ban on blacks wasn't ever doctrine but rather it was just a policy of man. I'm curious as to members opinions on the remaining priesthood ban on women in the church. Is it official doctrine or is it just the policy of men?

And with that would you support overturning the policy and allowing women to hold the priesthood and serve in priesthood and hold all positions leadership of the church?

Phaedrus

I am a more orthodox Mormon, I feel that everything the prophet reveals is doctrine, Brigham Young's ban was doctrine, if it wasn't the Lord wouldn't of allowed it. Now just because the Lord allows something doesn't mean he endorses it, there is plenty of times in the scriptures where God allowed doctrine to be made even though he didn't want things to happen that way. Look at Samuel, the people demanded a King and Samuel was hurt because he knew that Jehovah was King of Israel, but what does Jehovah do, he allows them there King while admitting this was not his plan for Israel, but he allows men to make choices to teach us the errors of our ways.

I feel the same with the priesthood ban on blacks, I personally don't think it was part of God's plans for us because God is not a respecter of persons, we are all equal in his eyes, but he allowed us to do our own thing to teach us the errors of our ways.

People assume that dcotrine means that God endorses the actions taken, no it simply means God allows the actions taken, that the actions taken will not lead the Church astray, and will provide us with opportunities to gain further understanding and become more like our perfect Heavenly Father.

God respects our agency, and this idea that God is leading us along by the hand is foolish, we need to earn our godhood by making choices. God doesn't lead us by the hand into the exaltation this is removing our agency.

Now saying that there is a priesthood ban against women is a loaded question and a incorrect question, IMO. There is no ban on women having the priesthood, if there was women wouldn't be allowed to be endowed or sealed these ordinances can only have power through the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood.

No women are not conferred the priesthood nor are the ordained to any offices in the priesthood but they have the priesthood, and they have it in the manner that Heavenly Father designed for us and in the pattern he has designed and revealed throughout the scriptures. Women have the priesthood through there husbands, eternal marriage makes them one flesh for time and eternity, so they receive the priesthood through spouse.

I do not think that women will even be conferred the priesthood or ordained into the priesthood offices, but if the prophet reveals the will of the Lord to be such I will follow the prophet.

To me the problem with women being conferred and ordained into the priesthood is that it weakens the unity of husband in wife (and I know I am going to receive so much hate mail but this is how I feel).

Husband and Wife are two different but vitally important components of exaltation, the husband cannot become a God without his wife, nor a wife a Goddess without her husband, in fact I believe the two of them become one God together since they are of one flesh according to Genesis (but this is a some what problematic since this is kinda trinitarian, but I feel that Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are 1 God since they are equally needed to create our spirits)

Now the husband bring the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood and the wife bring the capabilities to carry and birth children. Both are vital components if we are to have spiritual children of our own, and I feel that each component isn't something that can be passed along to the other.

The husband and wife are one flesh, so when you combine them as two individuals with a required component of exaltation they are able to be exalted. To me for women to receive be conferred the priesthood means they have no need for a husband, they now have the both components of exaltation without the need of a husband. I know the hate mail is filling my inbox already, but this is how I see exaltation and how it makes sense to me at this time.

It seems that Husband is suppose to bring the priesthood and wife the sacred gift of creating life, that both equally need each other so they must truly become one flesh in order to be exalted.

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Didn't we just go a few rounds with this topic? Was that here, or on the old board? I can't seem to find it.

My conclusion is that it is a policy based on interpretation and tradition, and not any pro-active revelation of prohibition. I find this paperFemale Ritual Healing in Mormonism to be an eye-opener for many on this subject, as it not only concerns full documentation of the authorization for women to perform healing ordinances for at least 100 years of the Restored Church's operation, but also a discussion of the historical development of what exactly constituted 'Priesthood' (Is it an office? Is it authority? Is it both?)

Again, check out the paper (it's long but worth it - 84 pages) here.

Also, here's a link to a fantastic Podcast on the subject, here.

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nackhadlow:

I believe it is a bit more complicated than that. While even today women can give health blessings. They may not invoke the Priesthood. I additionally believe it is called the Patriarchal Order for a reason.

Sometimesaint, I'm curious - have you read the full paper?

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nackhadlow:

I believe it is a bit more complicated than that. While even today women can give health blessings. They may not invoke the Priesthood. I additionally believe it is called the Patriarchal Order for a reason.

I know this is off topic but if women were ordained to the office or patriarch would they be called a matriarch or would we just ignore the conflict of having a female patriarch?

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nackhadlow:

I believe it is a bit more complicated than that. While even today women can give health blessings. They may not invoke the Priesthood. I additionally believe it is called the Patriarchal Order for a reason.

Also, the Patriarchal Order is generally another term used for and connected with the Temple Priesthood (which was something different that the Ecclesiastical Priesthood in Joseph Smith's apparant understanding of things) - in which women do perform Priesthood ordinances "under proper authority" - the healing ordinances (washings and anointing and blessings for health) were performed outside the Temple by women through virtue of Church Membership, in the Name of Jesus Christ. The same with men.

It was only later (when other Churches began having more prominent healing ministries, and claims to spiritual healing gifts, and it was shown that gifts of healings were not limited to those in the Restored Church), that there was a greater emphasis placed on the uniqueness and significance of Priesthood in relation to these ordinances. It played a big role in the Priesthood Correlation Effort.

If you don't have time to read the paper, listen to the podcasts. They're pretty amazing.

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I know this is off topic but if women were ordained to the office or patriarch would they be called a matriarch or would we just ignore the conflict of having a female patriarch?

I recall that one group of fringe nutters proposed that there should be a priesthood office for women that would be the equivalent of the office of Elder; the title for this office would be "Crone."

Hands up everyone who wants to be ordained a "Crone?"

There is no "Priesthood ban." Women are simply not ordained.

Agitation is unseemly. Latter-day Saints don't do it.

Regards,

Pahoran

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There is no "Priesthood ban." Women are simply not ordained.

Regards,

Pahoran

And the difference is?

Your language reminds me of the racial apologetics produced by the church during the time of the racial policies of the church. I.E. "We don't have a ban on black people... we allow them to be baptized"

Phaedrus

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And the difference is?

Your language reminds me of the racial apologetics produced by the church during the time of the racial policies of the church. I.E. "We don't have a ban on black people... we allow them to be baptized"

Phaedrus

I explain this in detail in post 4, if you care to peruse that post it might help you!

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And the difference is?

Your language reminds me of the racial apologetics produced by the church during the time of the racial policies of the church. I.E. "We don't have a ban on black people... we allow them to be baptized"

Phaedrus

My wife and I are one flesh. Therefore she holds all of the priesthood offices I do, and I have all the callings she does. She already has full participation in the priesthood.

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My wife and I are one flesh. Therefore she holds all of the priesthood offices I do, and I have all the callings she does. She already has full participation in the priesthood.

Yet your wife cannot be a Bishop, a Stake President, or even a Institute Director. She cannot hold any office of the priesthood or administrative office of the church that requires the priesthood. She cannot baptize a new member of the church even if she was the missionary that taught them. You cannot quote the teachings of women in the church in the same way you can quote Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Thomas S. Monson specifically because they don't have office or authority.

Phaedrus

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You cannot quote the teachings of women in the church in the same way you can quote Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Thomas S. Monson specifically because they don't have office or authority.

WHAT? The women leaders of the church are quoted all the time in talks and lessons, when was the last time you attended an LDS service?

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Yet your wife cannot be a Bishop, a Stake President, or even a Institute Director. She cannot hold any office of the priesthood or administrative office of the church that requires the priesthood. She cannot baptize a new member of the church even if she was the missionary that taught them. You cannot quote the teachings of women in the church in the same way you can quote Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Thomas S. Monson specifically because they don't have office or authority.

And I can't be a mother, can't hold positions of leadership in the Relief Society or Young Womens groups, etc. What of it?

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WHAT? The women leaders of the church are quoted all the time in talks and lessons, when was the last time you attended an LDS service?

Notice I said "in the same way". Women can be quoted and many have said many brilliant things but they aren't authoritative for the church in the same way the Prophet, the First Presidency, or the Twelve are. For example would you quote Julie Beck, the present Relief Society President, as someone speaking with authority for the church?

Phaedrus

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Agitation is unseemly. Latter-day Saints don't do it.

Without agitation, nothing happens.

Man must move beneath before God is moved above.

Withholding the priesthood from women today has no more authoritative basis than withholding the priesthood from blacks in 1977.

And the ultimate result for women will be the same as it was for blacks.

Now, what I find really interesting is that the majority of responders to the poll say it is doctrine that women don't have the priesthood, but the majority still says they would support women being ordained.

There's a story there, I'll wager.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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Notice I said "in the same way". Women can be quoted and many have said many brilliant things but they aren't authoritative for the church in the same way the Prophet, the First Presidency, or the Twelve are. For example would you quote Julie Beck, the present Relief Society President, as someone speaking with authority for the church?

The ONLY person that can speak with authority for the Church is the President of the Church, so once again I ask:

WHAT are your talking about?

and

When was the last time you attended a LDS service?

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