Anti-Evolution and the Church

[LDS Guy 1986]

But they left in the magic fruit, flaming swords, talking serpents and other symbols that practically cudgel you over the head screaming: THIS STORY IS ALLEGORICAL SYMBOLISM, PLEASE DO NOT TAKE IT 100% LITERALLY

I know that the tree of knowledge of good and evil existed in Independence Missouri the location of the Garden of Eden, it was a real tree there is nothing magical about it. If I believe that a donkey talked later in the scriptures why is it difficult to believe that a serpent talked in the beginning, and I don't know of these other symbols you speak of so I cannot comment on them.

To some this is odd to believe in such things, I understand that, but that is why we have the Holy Ghost, we have that sweet comfort he provides us to know that this is the truth even though it doesn't sound like it is possible according to the limited understanding of man.

I have faith in Jesus Christ and through the Holy Ghost I know that the world was created by him though the power of God, that Christ made not only my spirit but he made with his hand the Body of Adam the man from which I descend. That I lived with God before coming to this world to gain a body and prove my worth to Heavenly Father. I know that he is proud of me and that he loves me, I know that he will test me and allow my faith and strength to be tried so I can grow and progress into godhood.

I know he wants to see me become a God like he is, that he sent his only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ to provide the way for this to happen. I feel his presence in my life and like Lehi now that I have followed the Iron Rod to the tree of life, I want all to come and partake of its most good fruit, which is the love of God.

The removed endowment sentence was not meant to as it has been misconstrued to do, this is why it was removed over 20 years ago. To continue to look into the past 20 years why not go back 120 and bicker about polygamy as well. The past is the past, we are lead by a living prophet and with his council and the Iron Rod I know that I will see Christ in the flesh one day and rejoice.

[BCSpace]

Internet Mormons

I hate this term. Is there another way of putting it?

There is no such dichotomy anyway except in the minds of certain antiMormons and other people on the high road to apostasy. A real dichotomy that exists might have to do with FieldingSkousenMcConkites; those who accept as official doctrine the unofficial works of those men.

[thesometimesaint]

LDS Guy 1986:

You are digging yourself into a deeper hole. A gentle hint: Once you find yourself in a hole Stop Digging. I'm no Pharisee nor have any sympathy for their causes.

I follow God with all my heart. The Gospel even the Restored Gospel is just the vehicle I use in that regard.

IF I am wrong Prove It. An appeal to your misunderstanding of Scripture or some appeal to the Flying Spaghetti Monster just doesn't make for convincing scientific arguments. As I have repeatedly said if someone wants to disprove evolution it is easy to do. It takes no special tools, ability, or skill other than a shove, and a notebook to write down accurately what is seen. All anybody has to do is find a fully modern human skeleton in a previously undisturbed Precambrian layer of dirt. After better than 150 years no one so far has been able to do it. But you may be different. Go for it.

You keep making that false dichotomy. One can be a scientist and a darned good one, and be a faithful member of the Church. I am one, personally know several, and have linked to more. Remember about holes and stopping digging?

Your interpretation of science and Gods' word are what are in conflict. While I personally don't see a total reconciliation any time soon. No one gave me that crystal ball. Too me science is a beautiful and simple way to understand HOW God made the universe. I leave it to the Prophets and Scripture to tell me the WHY.

Such is the nature of men sometimes it is two steps forwards, and one step back. Sometimes it is two steps back, and one step forward. However, I believe overall we are much better off than we were just a century ago. To say nothing of 3 millenia ago.

While I will always, pending my Godhood, have more to learn. The claim of yours is pure garbage and incitement. I will stack my knowledge of the Gospel against the likes you any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

That is the standard claim of the Creationists. Unfortunately for them no one that knows about evolution makes a contra-claim. In fact modern day birds are just only living members of dinosaurs that escaped extinction. Modern day humans are just the only living member of a species of ape. All the others went extinct. Are you claiming now that species don't go extinct?

You really do need to take a biology course. There are additions, subtraction, transpositions in the genetic codes all the time. Most of which are not a detriment to the individual member of a specie. Do you know the first thing about genetic drift/variation? I am different than either my mom or dad yet I have exact number of chromosomes as they do. That is what sexual reproduction is all about at the genetic level to make new individuals by subtracting, adding, and transposing genetic material. ALL modern day dogs are descendant from the Gray Wolf. From the Mastiff to the Chihuahua all are dogs with slight variations in genetics, not just subtractions.

You need to rethink your bald assertions before making them.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T0P-485PBKC-JB&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F30%

[consiglieri]

Okay, LDS Guy, I am going to stop playing around here, though it is so much fun I am hating myself even as I write this.

But seriously, here's the deal.

We are (mostly) all Latter-day Saints engaging in this discussion.

We believe the Book of Mormon is the Word of God; that Joseph Smith was a prophet; and that this Church has a claim to divine restoration and priesthood above and beyond that of any other church on earth.

Having said this, it is possible, and even desirable, for Mormons who hold to these beliefs to have a host of differing opinions on other matters pertaining to their religion.

I am not saying you are somehow outside the LDS Church by holding to your fundamentalist views.

It is okay for us to agree to disagree.

At the end of the day, we are still brothers and sisters and need to support each other in the long haul of enduring to the end in faithfulness.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[WalkerW]

I wasn't condeming anyone for their opinions on Evolution.

Oh, I know. That wasn't a reference to you.

Actually, it wasn't a reference to person in particular (though LDS Guy 1986 fits the bill in this thread). It was more of a general statement.

[WalkerW]

Fanny-Alger-Who? Mormons

The-Book-of-Abraham-Is-Actually-What? Mormons

Mark-Hoffman-Fooled-Who? Mormons

Hahaha.

[ELF1024]

Everything in religion has been falsified to a greater or lesser extent.

But at the top of the list of most thoroughly dis-proven things is all of humanity literally descending from a lone homo-sapiens couple living in some paradisaical garden 6,000 years ago.

Logically I have to agree with you. I do not think there was enough genetic diversity for it. And really, if you consider the flood being another "world wide" (which I don't) event that is another genetic diversity limiting event.

I don't have a good answer for it. However, maybe it's just because I was raised with the idea, and I am having a hard time turning my sacred cow to hamburger.

[consiglieri]

A real dichotomy that exists might have to do with FieldingSkousenMcConkites; those who accept as official doctrine the unofficial works of those men.

Two of the three who were apostles . . .

[SilverKnight]

Okay, LDS Guy, I am going to stop playing around here, though it is so much fun I am hating myself even as I write this.

But seriously, here's the deal.

We are (mostly) all Latter-day Saints engaging in this discussion.

We believe the Book of Mormon is the Word of God; that Joseph Smith was a prophet; and that this Church has a claim to divine restoration and priesthood above and beyond that of any other church on earth.

Having said this, it is possible, and even desirable, for Mormons who hold to these beliefs to have a host of differing opinions on other matters pertaining to their religion.

I am not saying you are somehow outside the LDS Church by holding to your fundamentalist views.

It is okay for us to agree to disagree.

At the end of the day, we are still brothers and sisters and need to support each other in the long haul of enduring to the end in faithfulness.

All those in favor, please indicate...

_|

[WalkerW]

All those in favor, please indicate...

_|

You didn't...

[LDS Guy 1986]

You are aware I wasn't the one who took that line out of the lecture at the veil?

Did I say you did?

So who do you think added it to the lecture at the veil? I mean, before it was removed.

It really doesn't matter, but I would assume that it was either in there from the original writing or added by a later prophet. The point is that people used it to tarnish the Restored Gospel in way that the prophets or the Lord intended so it was amended by the will of the Lord through his living prophet (at the time Howard W. Hunter).

You've said this at least three times now, and it isn't getting any truer for the repetition.

No it was true from the beginning and still is as it will be tomorrow and forever.

You are aware Genesis 2 reverses that order?

Only if you seek to misinterpret it that way, and leave out the entire Hebrew writing structure, but hey to each there own.

Or even millions . . .

Only if there is no God, and I know there is so nope it's thousands.

[LDS Guy 1986]

With one notable exception . . .

With no exceptions, I follow the inspired teachings of all the prophets.

[LDS Guy 1986]

I hate this term. Is there another way of putting it?

Unorthodox?

[SilverKnight]

Logically I have to agree with you. I do not think there was enough genetic diversity for it. And really, if you consider the flood being another "world wide" (which I don't) event that is another genetic diversity limiting event.

I don't have a good answer for it. However, maybe it's just because I was raised with the idea, and I am having a hard time turning my sacred cow to hamburger.

Grind up the sacred cow, add some seasoning, and grill it up into something delicious.

You'll never know for sure if the cow was sacred to begin with, but at least you'll have something good to eat in the meantime.

[thesometimesaint]

LDS Guy 1986:

I have no problem with the inspired words of the Prophets as supported by http://newsroom.lds.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

[ELF1024]

Unorthodox?

This is a pretty good example of why I found myself very antagonistic towards all organized religion for a number of years. Not because I didn't have faith, not because I didn't believe. But because "organized religion" is an oxymoron on the same level as "efficient government".

This just illustrates nearly perfectly that organized religion is many things, but it sure as heck isn't all that organized.

[BCSpace]

A real dichotomy that exists might have to do with FieldingSkousenMcConkites; those who accept as official doctrine the unofficial works of those men.

Two of the three who were apostles . . .

Whose books were both rejected by the Church as official.

[ELF1024]

Grind up the sacred cow, add some seasoning, and grill it up into something delicious.

You'll never know for sure if the cow was sacred to begin with, but at least you'll have something good to eat in the meantime.

I dunno, I kinda like this cow.... and it's not like it's hurting anyone.

[consiglieri]

Unorthodox?

I prefer heretical.

[consiglieri]

With no exceptions, I follow the inspired teachings of all the prophets.

As long as you get to define "inspired."

[consiglieri]

Whose books were both rejected by the Church as official.

That's not doctrine.

Yowzah!!!

*pumps fist in the air*

(Sorry. Couldn't help myself.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[WalkerW]

I prefer heretical.

I'm sure they do as well.

[LDS Guy 1986]

You keep making that false dichotomy. One can be a scientist and a darned good one, and be a faithful member of the Church. I am one, personally know several, and have linked to more. Remember about holes and stopping digging?

If you would take your head out of the ground for a second, you would see I never said once cannot be a scientist and a saint, only that following the opinion of men over the Gospel is not following God but men.

I cannot tell how your walk with the Lord is for several reasons:

1) I don't know you

2) I am not your Priesthood Leader

3) I am not Heavenly Father

So your faithfulness to God is between you and him all I am doing is bringing the light of the Restored Gospel if you find yourself blinded by it's light that is between you and God. Attacking the messenger though is exactly what the Pharisees did when they heard the sometimes painful truths of the Gospel and rather keep twisting the truth to them instead of changing there life to fit into the truth of the Gospel.

If you are so offended then I would say it might be time for some deep study and pondering of the Gospel, but that is only friendly advice and I can't really know if it fits because I don't know you at all.

The fact that you constantly miss this point makes me feel you have some skeletons in the closet but like I said I don't know you so who knows whats going on here.

What I do know as truth thought, is that if men preach something contrary to the scriptures and they are not the current President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I reject it no matter what the personal cost to me. This living your religion as we are taught to do by the Standard Works and the modern prophets.

[consiglieri]

I dunno, I kinda like this cow.... and it's not like it's hurting anyone.

It's peeing upstream.

[LDS Guy 1986]

As long as you get to define "inspired."

No the Church defines that, and I seek the confirmation of the Holy Ghost about it.

http://lds.org/study...ery=inspiration