WalkerW Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 There really is no LDS source that will sway you from your preconceived fundamentalist dogmatism, is there?All the Best!--ConsiglieriAnd it never has to do with evidence. It's all about taking a stand on some self-constructed moral high ground. I don't think creationists are immoral. I just think they aren't acquainted with the evidence (or are purposely ignoring it). But as soon as you suggest that the evidence points in favor of evolution, you suddenly become a vile deceiver seeking to lead others into eternal damnation. I don't get it.
consiglieri Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 I wonder why they chose to remove that sentence.A less fundamentalist interpretation, to which I happen to subscribe, is that this sentence was taken out to remove the last vestige of Brigham Young's Lecture at the Veil in which he fully articulated the Adam-God Theory to all endowment initiates.All the Best!--Consiglieri
WalkerW Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 As for the temple ceremony, see Kathleen Flake, "
consiglieri Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 They removed it because people used it out of context to destroy the creation story. Geez, you only just now found out the sentence ever existed and already you know it was removed because people used it to destroy the context of the creation story?You must be a savant or something.Judge Wapner! Judge Wapner!All the Best!--Consiglieri
consiglieri Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 I don't get it.I think it was Dale Carnegie who once said most people pick their beliefs up on the street corner and then will fight to the death to defend them.Any truth in that?All the Best!--Consiglieri
ELF1024 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Geez, you only just now found out the sentence ever existed and already you know it was removed because people used it to destroy the context of the creation story?You must be a savant or something.Judge Wapner! Judge Wapner!All the Best!--ConsiglieriWhile it is said that Sacred Cows make the best hamburger.Can you take a bit less joy in the process?
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 There really is no LDS source that will sway you from your preconceived fundamentalist dogmatism, is there?All the Best!--ConsiglieriNo, I hold to the Iron Rod, the Word of God and as the Restored Gospel tells us I only follow Christ chosen Apostles and reject all other gospels brought to me that deny Jesus is the Christ. There is nothing wrong with "living your religion" as President Young asked us to do repeatedly throughout his leadership. I follow science, I study science specifically medicinal imaginer, but the eternal truths of God trump the best educated guess of man every time. Science has it's purpose, science has it great benefit to man, I believe that science is a blessing from God but like all things it can be used to glorify god or lead his children away from him into the waiting arm of the Devil. We must respect all knowledge we receive and learn to follow the eternal truths of the Gospel instead of the temporary theories of man, as God allows man to increase there understanding more, these flawed theories will become closer to the eternal truths of God, IMO. As we have been repeatedly told by the living prophets, if we hold strong to the Iron Rod in faith the day will come where were are vindicated before man and exalted for out faithfulness, if we remain worthy. I have done the serve two masters thing for too long, now that I have found the one true church and have been working so hard to overcome my weaknesses to be worthy to hold the Holy Priesthood, I am all in for Christ. I serve Christ in all things and rebuke all evil before me. I have happiness and joy in my life and I will never compromise it with the clever theories of man. When it comes to enternity it is always better to stand behind the protection of the scriptures instead of go in front of it and face the fiery arrows of Satan without the protection of the Holy Ghost. My question though, is why does orthodox faith (or as you call it fundamental dogma) get you so unnerved?
SilverKnight Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 They removed it because people used it out of context to destroy the creation story. But they left in the magic fruit, flaming swords, talking serpents and other symbols that practically cudgel you over the head screaming: THIS STORY IS ALLEGORICAL SYMBOLISM, PLEASE DO NOT TAKE IT 100% LITERALLY
ELF1024 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 But they left in the magic fruit, flaming swords, talking serpents and other symbols that practically cudgel you over the head screaming: THIS STORY IS ALLEGORICAL SYMBOLISM, PLEASE DO NOT TAKE IT 100% LITERALLYSo... lemme get this right... we are to believe in the Priesthood, that Joseph Smith used a peepstone to translate the Plates, that the actual Cumoriah is in mezo-America and not NY; but we can't believe in magic fruit, flaming swords, or talking snakes.Ok, thanks... for clarifying...
WalkerW Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 My question though, is why does orthodox faith (or as you call it fundamental dogma) get you so unnerved?Actually, if we want to be accurate, "Orthodox" Christianity has nothing to do with Mormonism. We call it fundamentalism because it fits with the fundamentalist movements of the early 20th century. See Ronald L. Numbers, "The Creationists," in God and Nature: Essays on the Encounter between Christianity and Science, eds. Numbers, David C. Lindberg (University of California Press, 1986).
consiglieri Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 As for the temple ceremony, see Kathleen Flake, "
SilverKnight Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 My question though, is why does orthodox faith (or as you call it fundamental dogma) get you so unnerved?You're a new MADB member surrounded by Internet Mormons, Apologists, and Apostates:Your days as an orthodox fundamentalist are numbered...
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Geez, you only just now found out the sentence ever existed and already you know it was removed because people used it to destroy the context of the creation story?Yes, just like people in ancient times added and subtracted from the Gospel to destroy it's message, people today try and add and subtract from the Restored Gospel (which includes the Endowment Ceremony) to try and destroy the Restored Gospel.The only difference between then and now is thank the Lord he has restored his Priesthood and we have Apostles to stop such things from perverting the purity of the Restored Gospel. Your contextual twist was removed to keep people from adding something to the Gospel that wasn't suppose to be there, the creation narrative recorded by Moses and Abraham is not a figurative. It is the recorded events that actually happened at beginning of this world, this process took a period of 6,0000 Earth years to complete. Not everything is know about how this process was done, what is known is that all animal life was made by the hand of God and that after this life was made God made man and woman in the image of God. This is truth, it is eternal truth, it is as true today and tomorrow as it was when it happened thousands of years ago.
consiglieri Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Can you take a bit less joy in the process?2 Nephi 2:25!(Rarely has that scripture enjoyed so fully contextualized a citation.)All the Best!--Consiglieri
WalkerW Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 believe in the PriesthoodWhatever that means.Joseph Smith used a peepstone to translate the Plates That's what the historical record shows.that the actual Cumoriah is in mezo-America and not NYBased on the evidence, yes.but we can't believe in magic fruit, flaming swords, or talking snakesYou can. It just makes more sense to understand in within the culture of the ancient Near East.It just becomes annoying when one rejects the scientific evidence and then condemns those who don't.Ok, thanks... for clarifying...No problem.
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 You're a new MADB member surrounded by Internet Mormons, Apologists, and Apostates:Your days as an orthodox fundamentalist are numbered...I doubt it, but acknowledge that there will be times when this forum will bring deep questions to bear and I know that through the Holy Ghost that these events will strengthen my testimony of the truth not weaken it.
consiglieri Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 I only follow Christ chosen Apostles With one notable exception . . .
WalkerW Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Internet MormonsI hate this term. Is there another way of putting it?
SilverKnight Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 So... lemme get this right... we are to believe in the Priesthood, that Joseph Smith used a peepstone to translate the Plates, that the actual Cumoriah is in mezo-America and not NY; but we can't believe in magic fruit, flaming swords, or talking snakes.Ok, thanks... for clarifying...Everything in religion has been falsified to a greater or lesser extent.But at the top of the list of most thoroughly dis-proven things is all of humanity literally descending from a lone homo-sapiens couple living in some paradisaical garden 6,000 years ago.
consiglieri Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 people today try and add and subtract from the Restored Gospel (which includes the Endowment Ceremony) to try and destroy the Restored Gospel. You are aware I wasn't the one who took that line out of the lecture at the veil?Your contextual twist was removed to keep people from adding something to the Gospel that wasn't suppose to be there,So who do you think added it to the lecture at the veil? I mean, before it was removed. this process took a period of 6,0000 Earth years to complete. You've said this at least three times now, and it isn't getting any truer for the repetition. what is known is that all animal life was made by the hand of God and that after this life was made God made man and woman in the image of God. You are aware Genesis 2 reverses that order?This is truth, it is eternal truth, it is as true today and tomorrow as it was when it happened thousands of years ago.Or even millions . . .All the Best!--Consiglieri
consiglieri Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 I hate this term. Is there another way of putting it?Smart Mormons?
WalkerW Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Smart Mormons?No, consig. It reminds me too much of Daniel Dennett's ridiculous "Brights." The categories are just so abstract. To me it seems that there are the fundamentalists and then there is everyone else.
ELF1024 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 It just becomes annoying when one rejects the scientific evidence and then condemns those who don't.No problem.I wasn't condeming anyone for their opinions on Evolution. I myself believe that there are portions of truth within evolution. I can find truth in the idea that species adapt to their enviorment and that if a population of one species becomes seperated from another group of the same species that enviormental and biological factors can intervene and cause the two species to become subspecies of the original, to the point where the two species are incompatable for mating.I do not reject many facets of Evolution. However I do make an exception for man. I believe that man was created. Everything else on the planet may have been created in the exact way that darwin proposed. I don't see it as a testimony destoying point. However, I do believe that man is somehow special and was created differently.That is my personal belief. My only point was to respond to Consig about his BY quotes, and then to point out that there are plenty of "supernatural" events in the Bible that cannot be explained by science. Are talking serpents, Angels with Flaming Swords, and Magic fruit really that "out there" when you consider "mana from heaven" for example?
SilverKnight Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 I hate this term. Is there another way of putting it?Fanny-Alger-Who? MormonsThe-Book-of-Abraham-Is-Actually-What? MormonsMark-Hoffman-Fooled-Who? Mormons
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