AKS Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Everyone's heard the Brandon Davies story by now. I realize that he knew the expectations/requirements when agreeing to play basketball for BYU. If his relationship with his girlfriend was private it seems like this transgression should be between him and God. Why does BYU feel the need to punish him? It doesn't do the school any good and it certainly doesn't do the young man any good. It's a lose-lose situation. The guy made a mistake and confessed on his own. His punishment, if forthcoming, should be from God and not a bunch of old white men.And BTW, we're talking about 19 and 20 year olds, many of them on their own for the first time. People are having sex, I guarantee it.
thesometimesaint Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 AKS:The heart of your question is: Why should there be any rules, after all some people will violate the rules?
AKS Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 There should be rules to protect people from damages by other people. There were no injured parties in this case, except for self inflicted injuries based on how you feel about pre-marital sex.
bluebell Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Are you asking why, after Davies agreed not to have premarital sex and agreed to the consequences of his actions if he did so, BYU should extend the consequences to him?You don't have any children, do you?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Everyone's heard the Brandon Davies story by now. I realize that he knew the expectations/requirements when agreeing to play basketball for BYU. If his relationship with his girlfriend was private it seems like this transgression should be between him and God. Why does BYU feel the need to punish him? It doesn't do the school any good and it certainly doesn't do the young man any good. It's a lose-lose situation. The guy made a mistake and confessed on his own. His punishment, if forthcoming, should be from God and not a bunch of old white men.And BTW, we're talking about 19 and 20 year olds, many of them on their own for the first time. People are having sex, I guarantee it.Lets see, you wish to fault BYU for holding it's honor code and using integrity. No one forces people to go to BYU. People can just not go to BYU if the honor code is an issue for them (For having sex with their girl friends). So when the do break the honor code which they agreed to keep of their own free will, that is BYU's problem how?I think that is the break down of your understanding. You seem to think that BYU is over stepping their boundries. When the reality is they have the right an obligation to hold up their own honor code. Actions have consequences let us never forget this. The other thing I like alot about BYU is how everyone is treated equally accourding to the honor code. The star player of the basket ball team does not get a special pass because he is the star. He is treated just as some unknown would be treated if that some unknown broke the honor code.SO, if you wish to be mad at some one be mad at Mr Davies for breaking the honor code. For he darn well knew before hand that if he did break it, this is what would happen.
AKS Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Are you asking why, after Davies agreed not to have premarital sex and agreed to the consequences of his actions if he did so, BYU should extend the consequences to him?You don't have any children, do you?No, I'm saying it would be a different matter if he was found with his girlfriend in the clubhouse. Or if he impregnated several women, etc. He obviously felt that he had made a huge mistake (what would bring on such guilt is another topic), and came forward. The whole thing seems asinine.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 There should be rules to protect people from damages by other people. There were no injured parties in this case, except for self inflicted injuries based on how you feel about pre-marital sex.Earth, to AKS is anyone home? He agreed to an honor code and broke it. Hello, actions have consequenses.Stop trying to make this an issue about the church or BYU. The problem lies with in Mr Davies actions.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 No, I'm saying it would be a different matter if he was found with his girlfriend in the clubhouse. Or if he impregnated several women, etc. He obviously felt that he had made a huge mistake (what would bring on such guilt is another topic), and came forward. The whole thing seems asinine.So, Mr Dvies breaks the honor code wilfully and BYU is just supposed to pardon him? Talk about a lack of integrety on BYU's part. Why even have an honor code then?What is asinine, is the expectation that BYU should not do anything.
Lamanite Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Pretty good discussionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN7jSEAfCNMBig UP!Lamanite
AKS Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 The other thing I like alot about BYU is how everyone is treated equally accourding to the honor code. The star player of the basket ball team does not get a special pass because he is the star. He is treated just as some unknown would be treated if that some unknown broke the honor code.I think this is demonstrably false. Ever heard of a guy named Jim McMahon? BYU let him play 5 years and THEN kicked him out of school after his eligibility was gone.
bluebell Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Lets see, you wish to fault BYU for holding it's honor code and using integrity. No one forces people to go to BYU. People can just not go to BYU if the honor code is an issue for them (For having sex with their girl friends). So when the do break the honor code which they agreed to keep of their own free will, that is BYU's problem how?I think that is the break down of your understanding. You seem to think that BYU is over stepping their boundries. When the reality is they have the right an obligation to hold up their own honor code. Actions have consequences let us never forget this. The other thing I like alot about BYU is how everyone is treated equally accourding to the honor code. The star player of the basket ball team does not get a special pass because he is the star. He is treated just as some unknown would be treated if that some unknown broke the honor code.SO, if you wish to be mad at some one be mad at Mr Davies for breaking the honor code. For he darn well knew before hand that if he did break it, this is what would happen.Personal responsibility is not popular right now. Neither is accepting consequences for our choices.I applaud Davies for being 'man enough' (just for you Frankenstein ) to accept his. I'm sure it has been really tough for everyone involved. I have great respect for him and no judgemental feelings at all. His sin is between himself and God and i know that beauty will come from the ashes if Davies lets it.His breach of the honor code though was between himself and BYU and, as is logical, it was handled by the party who was harmed by the breach of the contract.
bluebell Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 No, I'm saying it would be a different matter if he was found with his girlfriend in the clubhouse. Or if he impregnated several women, etc. He obviously felt that he had made a huge mistake (what would bring on such guilt is another topic), and came forward. The whole thing seems asinine.Why would that be different?Are you suggesting that we should only be held to consequences we have agreed to if the break in the contract is severe?
AKS Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 >>Earth, to AKS is anyone home? He agreed to an honor code and broke it. Dude, you are in serious denial if you don't think kids are having sex at byu.
bluebell Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I think this is demonstrably false. Ever heard of a guy named Jim McMahon? BYU let him play 5 years and THEN kicked him out of school after his eligibility was gone.He confessed to having premarital sex?
Questing Beast Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 The snide response is disagreeable.I don't know the particulars of this story (I rarely pursue the nooz).Free will and rules go together in everything. Ignorance of the rools IS a justified excuse for breaking them, once. Knowledge of them and breaking them can still be justified under limited circumstances; but I don't see how, in the case of moral standards clearly published and agreed to openly beforehand. Any institution has the right to establish its codes and demand adherence to them. There is nothing compulsory about any of this. You agree, you obey. You agree, you disobey, you are judged by those authorized to pass judgment. What part of this is unfair or unjust? Mercy is always an option. But mercy unjustly applied establishes precedent, demanding equal treatment for all others from then on. A hard line is much easier to defend than a shifting one....
bluebell Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 >>Earth, to AKS is anyone home? He agreed to an honor code and broke it. Dude, you are in serious denial if you don't think kids are having sex at byu.Again, what does the number of kids who break the honor code by having premarital sex have to do with whether it is just to extend the consequences to those who admit to it?Surely you are not using the 'everyone is doing it' arguement to strengthen your case? The average 16 year old knows how invalid that argument is, even though they still try to use it.
SkepticTheist Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 So, what is your point? Those that take steps towards repentance are the ones that BYU knows about.How are they supposed to enforce the honor code in the cases where they don't know about ones that don't come forward?I fail to see how secret sexual escapades have anything to do with BYU enforcing things where it actually knows about something.>>Earth, to AKS is anyone home? He agreed to an honor code and broke it. Dude, you are in serious denial if you don't think kids are having sex at byu.
AKS Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Again, what does the number of kids who break the honor code by having premarital sex have to do with whether it is just to extend the consequences to those who admit to it?Surely you are not using the 'everyone is doing it' arguement to strengthen your case? The average 16 year old knows how invalid that argument is, even though they still try to use it.The difference, dear bluebell, is in the severity of the punishment. You have effectively ruined the most magical of seasons for a whole team, possible ruined or severely damaged a young mans career for an offense that is probably occurring multiple times by BYU students as I write this post.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 >>Earth, to AKS is anyone home? He agreed to an honor code and broke it. Dude, you are in serious denial if you don't think kids are having sex at byu.Who said I was in denial about that factoid? Did I even attempt to "deny" that people were having sex at BYU? Nope. Read what I wrote again. evidenctly that plainess of my writting was lost on you.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Personal responsibility is not popular right now. Neither is accepting consequences for our choices.I applaud Davies for being 'man enough' (just for you Frankenstein ) to accept his. I'm sure it has been really tough for everyone involved. I have great respect for him and no judgemental feelings at all. His sin is between himself and God and i know that beauty will come from the ashes if Davies lets it.His breach of the honor code though was between himself and BYU and, as is logical, it was handled by the party who was harmed by the breach of the contract.I think this is a great posts. I agree with it. Perhaps AKS will see the wisdom.
Walden Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Everyone's heard the Brandon Davies story by now. I realize that he knew the expectations/requirements when agreeing to play basketball for BYU. If his relationship with his girlfriend was private it seems like this transgression should be between him and God. Why does BYU feel the need to punish him? It doesn't do the school any good and it certainly doesn't do the young man any good. It's a lose-lose situation. The guy made a mistake and confessed on his own. His punishment, if forthcoming, should be from God and not a bunch of old white men.And BTW, we're talking about 19 and 20 year olds, many of them on their own for the first time. People are having sex, I guarantee it.You are correct, "he knew the expectations/requirements when agreeing to play basketball for BYU." He accepted a scholarship (essentially money) to play basketball for BYU, and in exchange for that shcolarship, he agreed to play basketball for BYU, remain academically eligible, and adhere to the honor code that he signed.I'm sure that BYU was not the only school to offer this kid a scholarship....the fact is he is a pretty darn good player. Likewise, those other schools certainly did not have an honor code as strict as BYU's. He chose to play for a school where he knew from the beginning that sex, partying, etc. would not be tolerated. He chose to attend BYU, and thus chose to comply with the BYU honor code or suffer the consequences. Yes, his transgression is between him and god (and his bishop), but his violation of the honor code is between him and BYU. Of course there are students at BYU having sex. But when you are a basketball star on a nationally ranked, top-10 team, the eyes of Provo are on you. Just as there are perks to the notoriety that come from athletic stardom, there is also increased scrutiny.BYU holds itself to a higher moral standard than most other university's in the country when it comes to sex, alcohol, drugs, etc. Students are made well aware of these expectations.What this incident says about BYU's ideas on repentence, forgiveness, the atonement, etc. is another matter, but the fact is that this kid violated the university's honor code. And I think that you are incorrect when you state that this incident does not do the school any good. It gives them a platform to proclaim their moral virtues and sends a warning to current a future students that this type of conduct will not be tolerated, even if you are a basketball star.I am no fan of the mormon church, but I think that in an age where you see stories in the newspaper about star college athletes either beating up their girlfriends, getting busted with guns or drugs, taking money from agents, etc., and then getting off with only a slap on the wrist, or often no punishment at all, this type of no-nonsense treatment by the BYU administration is a bit refreshing.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 The difference, dear bluebell, is in the severity of the punishment. You have effectively ruined the most magical of seasons for a whole team, possible ruined or severely damaged a young mans career for an offense that is probably occurring multiple times by BYU students as I write this post.So, AKS thinks that certain people should be protected from laws and honor codes. Why are you faulting BYU for this?
AKS Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 So, AKS thinks that certain people should be protected from laws and honor codes. Why are you faulting BYU for this?Really? Is that what you got from my post?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I am no fan of the mormon church, but I think that in an age where you see stories in the newspaper about star college athletes either beating up their girlfriends, getting busted with guns or drugs, taking money from agents, etc., and then getting off with only a slap on the wrist, or often no punishment at all, this type of no-nonsense treatment by the BYU administration is a bit refreshing.I agree wtih you here. It appears that heveans have opened up. J/K.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Really? Is that what you got from my post?Yes, you are winning and complaning becuase teh star basketball player is being pusnished for his breaking the honor code. You think that because he is who he is that the honor code should not apply to him. You called this whole thing "asinine".So go ahead and try to paint a different picture of your position. It won't work.And bringing up that "for an offense that is probably occurring multiple times by BYU students" is completly irrelevant to this disucssion at hand.BTW can you back up your assertion? I am more than willing to give people a bit more respect than just assuming that a whole lot of people are dishonest and won't stick to their word. You seem to think so little of people. That is sad.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.