Joseph Antley Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 This whole attitude is what I didn't like about the Catholic church (just as an example), the superiority. I thought Jesus Christ and God were the most important things, but apparently to some folks it is the mormon church.If you reject the "Mormon Church," you must reject the Lord's prophets. If you reject the Lord's prophets, you are rejecting the words of the Lord.Do you understand the problem?
TAO Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Last I heard, an LDS who joins another Church is subject to excommunication for apostasy. So even if we don't refer to them as "apostates", technically that's what they would be.Very true. But I don't think Christ would be out there calling them apostates. He would be out there trying to help, or, in the least, using milder words. I believe milder words would help, I think.This is part of the tension between wanting to be nice, and maintaining the standard of being the "only true Church". It can only be sugarcoated to a certain point.Joseph McConkie spoke on this point, about the dangers of ecumenism:Agree with McConkie, but the reason would not be because we should be similar - it is because we should be kind. Christlike, and I think there are better words than apostate, for most of the time. It is certainly suitable for some cases, but not for all the ones it is used for on the board necessarily.
Lareliw Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Yes, however, that is contingent on believing that the Mormon church is the only true church. And even then, there are differences between what people would qualify as revelation vs. doctrine vs. opinion. I came here seeking answers, and some of the blatant hostility is offputting I have to admit.If you reject the "Mormon Church," you must reject the Lord's prophets. If you reject the Lord's prophets, you are rejecting the words of the Lord.Do you understand the problem?
frankenstein Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I came here seeking answers, and some of the blatant hostility is offputting I have to admit.please don't judge the lot by a few bad apples. I am sure you will quickly begin to realize where the hostility will come from.
Lareliw Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I'm not, I promise I just wanted to point out that the hostility IS offputting to those who are seeking answers honestly. please don't judge the lot by a few bad apples. I am sure you will quickly begin to realize where the hostility will come from.
thesometimesaint Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Lareliw:Christianity itself is exclusive. ONLY those who are Christian will be in Heaven. Now the LDS are very liberal when it comes to who will get a chance to become a Christian. But the fact remains those that reject Christ, or his servants the prophets will not be in Heaven. At to BYU. There is no requirement that anyone go to BYU, a person must want to go, and abide by the rules. Don't like the rules? Go some place else. Change their minds? Fine by me, just go some place else.
Deborah Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 At to BYU. There is no requirement that anyone go to BYU, a person must want to go, and abide by the rules. Don't like the rules? Go some place else. Change their minds? Fine by me, just go some place else.Not only that there is such a long waiting list and so many are turned down, a tithing supported school should have members who are in good standing and non-members who are willing to live the same standards.
Deborah Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I'm not, I promise I just wanted to point out that the hostility IS offputting to those who are seeking answers honestly.Keep in mind too this is a discussion site, not a missionary site (though some have received positive information and been converted); many are here not so much to welcome as to defend, and we get some pretty nasty little trolls who come here so defenses may be up. I don't think you will find such attitudes or remarks in a church setting. Also some people here are very young and some very old and some are a little more zealous than others. And the internet makes it possible for people to say things that they would never say to your face.
Lareliw Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 True, but I honestly don't think that anything that I have said at any point has shown me as being a "troll." To be honest, if I wasn't sincerely interested, I wouldn't be here and using my time to talk with all you fine folks Keep in mind too this is a discussion site, not a missionary site (though some have received positive information and been converted); many are here not so much to welcome as to defend, and we get some pretty nasty little trolls who come here so defenses may be up. I don't think you will find such attitudes or remarks in a church setting. Also some people here are very young and some very old and some are a little more zealous than others. And the internet makes it possible for people to say things that they would never say to your face.
Kevin Christensen Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Yes, however, that is contingent on believing that the Mormon church is the only true church. And even then, there are differences between what people would qualify as revelation vs. doctrine vs. opinion. I came here seeking answers, and some of the blatant hostility is offputting I have to admit.Regarding the "only true church" concept, I find it interesting that this phrase does not appear in Doctrine and Covenants 1, a revelation to Joseph Smith that expressly declares the reasons for Joseph Smith's call and the distinctions that do, and that do not apply to the LDS. D&C 1 expressly states that truth, virtue and revelation are not exclusive to the LDS. The distinction, as I read it, involves "only well pleasingness" relative to the concepts embodied in "true and living" imagery. It happens that Biblical contains several passages using the "true and living" images, such as Jer. 10:10, a voice of warning passage, true vine (priesthood), living waters (revelation, baptism, sacrament), true bread (sacrament, wisdom, bread of the presence), tree of life (temple, menorah), Jesus opening a "living way" (temple imagery in Hebrews, involving the Holy of Holies). Jesus as the way, the truth, and the life. The themes of the Biblical passages using those images correspond point for point, verse for verse with the themes of D&C 1. It also happens that the ideas associated with those themes correspond to the things that in actual practice distinguish the LDS from other Christian gatherings. Temple, priesthood, revelation (notably the Book of Mormon), ordinances and covenants. We are told that LDS membership grants opportunity and accountability, nothing more, so the "only well pleasingness" applies to the gathering as a collective, not necessarily to individuals just because they are members. "inasmuch as they erred, it shall be made manifest..."The picture, as I read it, is far more tolerant and robust than "only true church." It's a distinction of better, relative to revelation, priesthood, ordinances, covenants, the voice of warning, and temple, not of binary, polar exclusiveness with respect to truth, worth, and virtue. In D&C 1, God says he is no respecter of persons and is willing to give these things to all flesh.FWIWKevin ChristensenPittsburgh, PA
Deborah Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 True, but I honestly don't think that anything that I have said at any point has shown me as being a "troll." Goodness, no. But not everyone may be aware you are exploring. A lot of the real trolls are pretty quickly eliminated by the mods so you may not even have seen them; they are truly offensive. Others, not so egregious, are kept around to play with. In any case I was in no way implying you were a troll or anything close. But hackles are up because they do exist.
Deborah Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 The picture, as I read it, is far more tolerant and robust than "only true church." It's a distinction of better, relative to revelation, priesthood, ordinances, covenants, the voice of warning, and temple, not of binary, polar exclusiveness with respect to truth, worth, and virtue. I've always thought of the church as the administrative arm of the Lord to carry out those things you describe. Certainly there are truths to be found everywhere. Being a convert I have nothing but positive thoughts about all the prior churches I went to. They after all helped me build my testimony of Christ which has grown by finding the one church which had the authority and knowledge to move me forward.
facie ad faciem Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Keep in mind too this is a discussion site, not a missionary site (though some have received positive information and been converted); many are here not so much to welcome as to defend, and we get some pretty nasty little trolls who come here so defenses may be up. I don't think you will find such attitudes or remarks in a church setting. Also some people here are very young and some very old and some are a little more zealous than others. And the internet makes it possible for people to say things that they would never say to your face.Ah yes, the Greater Internet Jerkwad Theory:normal person + internet + anonymity = total jerkwador + + = Even we are not immune...
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