Seeker59 Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Hello everyone,My name is Michael Burke, I'm new here, I'm reading the Book of Mormon, and I'm interested in a better understanding of LDS doctrine.One thing I'd like to know is if there's room in LDS thought for an ontological cause for everything?If matter (or some kind of matter) is uncreated and eternal, is it's eternal existence independent of God's, or are they both part of the same thing?I believe God is intelligence, intelligence is eternal, and I guess spirit could be a form of matter (or energy), but it seems to me that there'd have to be some kind of onological reason for it all (whether it's personal, or impersonal--whether you call it "God," or something else.)Could anyone help me?
Brenda Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Hello everyone,My name is Michael Burke, I'm new here, I'm reading the Book of Mormon, and I'm interested in a better understanding of LDS doctrine.One thing I'd like to know is if there's room in LDS thought for an ontological cause for everything?If matter (or some kind of matter) is uncreated and eternal, is it's eternal existence independent of God's, or are they both part of the same thing?I believe God is intelligence, intelligence is eternal, and I guess spirit could be a form of matter (or energy), but it seems to me that there'd have to be some kind of onological reason for it all (whether it's personal, or impersonal--whether you call it "God," or something else.)Could anyone help me?Welcome Michael! I don't even know what ontological means, but I'm sure there'll be plenty here to help you.
Seeker59 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 Welcome Michael! I don't even know what ontological means, but I'm sure there'll be plenty here to help you. Thank you Brenda.Ontological means metaphysical. "Relating to or based upon being or existence."To anyone: If some form of matter has always existed, is there any room in Mormon thought for a metaphysical cause, basis, or reason for it's existence?Could it be relted to "God's" existence in some way (or are God, and this pre-existing, unorganized, matter totally unrelated)?
Seeker59 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 P.S. Is there any way to edit these posts?I meant to write "could it be related to "God's" existence in some way."(Sorry for the typo.)
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Thank you Brenda.Ontological means metaphysical. "Relating to or based upon being or existence."To anyone: If some form of matter has always existed, is there any room in Mormon thought for a metaphysical cause, basis, or reason for it's existence?Could it be relted to "God's" existence in some way (or are God, and this pre-existing, unorganized, matter totally unrelated)?Joseph Smith, translator of the Book of Mormon said
Seeker59 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 Joseph Smith, translator of the Book of Mormon said
Mudcat Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Hello everyone,My name is Michael Burke, I'm new here, I'm reading the Book of Mormon, and I'm interested in a better understanding of LDS doctrine.One thing I'd like to know is if there's room in LDS thought for an ontological cause for everything?If matter (or some kind of matter) is uncreated and eternal, is it's eternal existence independent of God's, or are they both part of the same thing?I believe God is intelligence, intelligence is eternal, and I guess spirit could be a form of matter (or energy), but it seems to me that there'd have to be some kind of onological reason for it all (whether it's personal, or impersonal--whether you call it "God," or something else.)Could anyone help me?Hi Michael, Welcome to the forum! I am an Evangelical Christian myself, but have studied the BoM at time or two, myself. I won't make any pretense to speak for LDS on the matter, but I enjoy the concept behind your question. Off the cuff, I would say that more likely than not, most LDS would think there isn't any ontological explanation that is necessary for the existence of anything. Reason being, IMO, is the LDS theological construct seems to more easily work with an actual infinite regression of events.I would recommend that you start a thread in the "General Discussion Forum" on the topic. The likelihood of relevant discussion on this topic would be more likely.Regards,Mudcat
HiJolly Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Did he say it couldn't be eternally generated by an eternal intelligence ("God")? No, he didn't. Or that eternal intelligence, spirit, and matter couldn't be part of some other eternal reality? No denial of that, either. That's what I mean by an ontological cause.All arguments for the existence of God (even a panteistic, impersonal "God") are based on the need for such a ontological reason for being."Why is there something, and not nothing?"Is there room in Mormon thought for such a cause, a reason, or must Intelligence, spirit, matter, and energy be viewed as completely unrelated, uncaused, bare facts?LDS doctrine is mostly centered on the manifest universe, and other than a couple of sections in the Doctrine & Covenants (here) (section 88 is an example) we really don't talk about it much. Or, we may talk but without doctrinal sources it's pretty much anybody's guess as to the reality. Joseph Smith Jr. said a lot in his "King Follett" sermon, but it's not scripture, just really interesting and probably 'true' thoughts. See here and here. Personally, I'm a bit different from most LDS (who are essentially Henotheists) in that I'm a Panentheist, believing that all matter & energy & everything else in the universe comes from or eminates from God Himself. Differences in beliefs among the membership in the LDS Church is often found, as we are not a 'creedal' religion, but rather focus mostly on what we do (or, don't do :-) HiJolly
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