Tiger Moms and Soccer Moms

[noel00]

I have seen several interviews with a Amy Chua who write an article in the Wall Street Journal "Why Chinese Mothers are Superior" It has provoked a huge response in the media. When I raised my 4 daughters I remember many times pushing, threatening them to do their homework. I use to say "You do not want to end up in a job cutting up pineapples in the Golden Circle Cannery?" None of them did. My grandson spends too much time on the Xbox, but seems to do well in Maths and Science. Chinese mothers insist on their children being first and if not shame them. Timothy Dalrymple made an interesting comment on patheos - philosophical fragments

"2. Better to pass on a passion than to pass on a practice. Teaching someone how to perform a particularly difficult piano maneuver is not the same as teaching her to love the piano. And drilling someone until they can excel at X is not the same as teaching them to want, deep in their bones, to excel at X.

One example: my Chinese-American wife was forced to take piano lessons through much of her childhood. Due to my gymnastics career, I never took more than two weeks of an instrument. I actually regret that. She regrets all the hours spent in piano classes. Now, I listen to classical music almost constantly, because my mother (in particular) passed along her love for classical music. My wife rarely listens to any music, and never to classical. She has no interest whatsoever."

"3. Children are not trophies. To my western ears, it

[volgadon]

What are your thoughts on best parenting practice?

This probably isn't it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPVv_ONK3QQ

[Calm]

What are your thoughts on best parenting practice?

I remember one of my son's friends who was being threatened to be pulled from the band because he was not getting A+'s and only A's. He very much enjoyed band, had fun in it, was an important part of the team and excelled in the area of music. It seemed very strange to me that something he was good at and that any parent could be proud of was being used as a 'stick' in order to push for just 5% more on his grades (that was what he told me he had to improve by). I suppose in a country where everything depends on how a person performs in school to what he can expect for his career choice, where they do not have the options to move from job to job to find one with the right fit, that such pressure makes more sense...but unfortunately the reason for it has been perverted to focusing on the practice on its own independent on what it actually means for the future of the child.

I have found with most kids of any culture that are forced to do something, that even if they originally cared for it, they tend to limit their involvement later in life much like the Chinese American wife cited in the OP.

The best practice is to not only push for the best, but to push for the best of what your child delights in and be involved in it as well (my sister-in-law began violin lessons when her daughter did and they play together now...her daughter surpassing her because she wants to practice more a lot of the times. She is being taught the art has value in and of itself (because her mom is investing her own time and effort in it). If you want to create passion in your child, the best way is to share your own passion with them.

[nicolasconnault]

I remember one of my son's friends who was being threatened to be pulled from the band because he was not getting A+'s and only A's. He very much enjoyed band, had fun in it, was an important part of the team and excelled in the area of music. It seemed very strange to me that something he was good at and that any parent could be proud of was being used as a 'stick' in order to push for just 5% more on his grades (that was what he told me he had to improve by). I suppose in a country where everything depends on how a person performs in school to what he can expect for his career choice, where they do not have the options to move from job to job to find one with the right fit, that such pressure makes more sense...but unfortunately the reason for it has been perverted to focusing on the practice on its own independent on what it actually means for the future of the child.

I have found with most kids of any culture that are forced to do something, that even if they originally cared for it, they tend to limit their involvement later in life much like the Chinese American wife cited in the OP.

The best practice is to not only push for the best, but to push for the best of what your child delights in and be involved in it as well (my sister-in-law began violin lessons when her daughter did and they play together now...her daughter surpassing her because she wants to practice more a lot of the times. She is being taught the art has value in and of itself (because her mom is investing her own time and effort in it). If you want to create passion in your child, the best way is to share your own passion with them.

Last year I wrote my honours thesis on this very subject. Self-Determination Theory describes three universal needs required for optimal well-being and growth: autonomy (the feeling that one's actions are self-chosen and in harmony with one's values), competence (the feeling of being able to accomplish a task) and relatedness (feeling connected with, supported and appreciated by others).

Research has shown repeatedly that the highest and most beneficial type of motivation is intrinsic motivation, typically displayed by children who are curious, interested and lose track of time while they engage in play. They do something for its own sake, for the enjoyment of it, not to obtain rewards or avoid punishment.

Intrinsic motivation is best achieved when all 3 needs (autonomy, competence and relatedness) are fulfilled. Autonomy is not particularly valued in many Asian cultures.

[Facsimile 3]

I don't think this book could have had better timing than to come out during the peak of the Disappointed Asian Dad (also known as High Expectations Asian Father) meme.

[todd520]

What are your thoughts on best parenting practice?

Doesn't all this just really validate that concerned and involved parents raise kids that do much better in school, and get into less trouble?

If a kid's favorite passion or hobby is band, then it's kinda obvious for a parent to use it as a stick.

[Calm]

If a kid's favorite passion or hobby is band, then it's kinda obvious for a parent to use it as a stick.

Sometimes inappropriately.

I know a parent who has used going to church as a stick to threaten the child with.

Threats in my experience work much less effectively than carrots, especially if it's the child who has determine what for and when he should receive the carrot and when it should be withheld.

[nicolasconnault]

Sometimes inappropriately.

I know a parent who has used going to church as a stick to threaten the child with.

Threats in my experience work much less effectively than carrots, especially if it's the child who has determine what for and when he should receive the carrot and when it should be withheld.

Threats are not a good parenting technique. You don't need a college degree to know that.

Rewards can also be poor parenting, and can stifle intrinsic motivation. Give a child $5 each time they practice the piano, and their motivation to do so will almost inevitably dwindle, even though they initially practiced for the fun of it. Not only is this backed up by large amounts of research, but I have experienced it first-hand in my own life.

[Calm]

Threats are not a good parenting technique. You don't need a college degree to know that.

Rewards can also be poor parenting, and can stifle intrinsic motivation. Give a child $5 each time they practice the piano, and their motivation to do so will almost inevitably dwindle, even though they initially practiced for the fun of it. Not only is this backed up by large amounts of research, but I have experienced it first-hand in my own life.

Most definitely. One needs to find out what creates self-motivation n a child and then try and find some way to adapt that to the skill you want them to develop....but best way is to let them focus on what they enjoy while guiding them to develop the skills that go along with the activity (for example, if a kid is really into computer games, encourage him to start making his own and then help him with the process).

[nicolasconnault]

Most definitely. One needs to find out what creates self-motivation n a child and then try and find some way to adapt that to the skill you want them to develop....but best way is to let them focus on what they enjoy while guiding them to develop the skills that go along with the activity (for example, if a kid is really into computer games, encourage him to start making his own and then help him with the process).

I'm not sure your example works, simply because in my experience most (not all) computer games distract children from their real talents and capacities. It's akin to saying that if a child is really into watching Western movies, he should be encouraged and assisted to make his own. I think parents need to exercise wisdom in promoting the best gifts, while not putting too much emphasis on other interests.

A child who is really into computer games is likely to have other interests, some of which may be better suited to developing his personality, character and Christ-like attributes. Unfortunately it seems that some teenagers have become so involved in gaming that they completely forget about the other interesting, satisfying and productive things of life, such as arts, work and sport.

[Glenn101]

This is a "duh" statement, but no one set of rules will cover all children. I found that finding that middle road between allowing children the freedom to choose their own paths and yet requiring a level of committment to education. integrity, and work ethic was my most difficult task. There is no way that we could be 'soccer mom and dad" to eleven children, which happened when I married my second wife. Fortunately four of them were already living on their own. more or less.

I thought I was doing a pretty good jib, so was stunned when one of my daughters accused me of demanding that they be perfect. I had to reevaluate what I was actually saying to them rather than what I though I was saying. I realized that I may have forgotten to count to ten at times, such as the one when my then eleven year old daughter recounted a trip with some huys on a van where she was allowed to drive the van for some few miles.

I never tried to push my children in any one direction, but after they were old enough to work, I did demand that they pay for their own extra curricular activities. If they did not like the generic clothes we could afford, they had to buy their own designer clothes. They grumbled, but complied and became self-reliant. So self-reliant that now one daughter is living in Hawaii with a grandson that I only get to see about every other year. (sigh)

Glenn

Edited to add: Yes, that is the one in the picture.

[Calm]

I'm not sure your example works, simply because in my experience most (not all) computer games distract children from their real talents and capacities. It's akin to saying that if a child is really into watching Western movies, he should be encouraged and assisted to make his own. I think parents need to exercise wisdom in promoting the best gifts, while not putting too much emphasis on other interests.

A child who is really into computer games is likely to have other interests, some of which may be better suited to developing his personality, character and Christ-like attributes. Unfortunately it seems that some teenagers have become so involved in gaming that they completely forget about the other interesting, satisfying and productive things of life, such as arts, work and sport.

My son loved computer games so we encouraged him to explore computers and now he is a computer programmer (though not of games, at least not during work hours). I would agree that it would not be appropriate for every child. I know of one computer enthusiast who used his talents to write music for the video games he loved. There are many skills that can be used in connection with video games, writing story lines, drawing characters, writing music as well as programming. Part of parenting skills is working on your own creativity and flexibility to find something that works...especially if one has a child who is stuck in "I don't know what I want" which is even worse than a child who only wants to do one thing.

[nicolasconnault]

My son loved computer games so we encouraged him to explore computers and now he is a computer programmer (though not of games, at least not during work hours). I would agree that it would not be appropriate for every child. I know of one computer enthusiast who used his talents to write music for the video games he loved. There are many skills that can be used in connection with video games, writing story lines, drawing characters, writing music as well as programming. Part of parenting skills is working on your own creativity and flexibility to find something that works...especially if one has a child who is stuck in "I don't know what I want" which is even worse than a child who only wants to do one thing.

What you are saying sounds oddly familiar to me... I grew up on a steady diet of computer games, currently work as a programmer (although training as a psychologist), and some of my musical compositions have been for a computer game

[Jeff K.]

An interesting reply:

Editor's note: Lac Su, a psychologist and business executive at TalentSmart, is the author of I Love Yous are for White People (HarperCollins, 2009).

(CNN) -- When CNN called me this week to see if I'd share my thoughts on the backlash surroundingAmy Chua's Wall Street Journal article "Why Chinese Mothers are Superior," I told them I would have much to say. You see, I was raised by two tigers.

My Chinese father and Vietnamese mother personified the parenting style advocated by Chua. Chua's January 8 article -- based on her new memoir "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" --unleashed a firestorm of criticism for its unabashed assertion that the harsh stereotypically Chinese style of parenting is superior to that of the West.

I received more than 1,000 emails from fans, family, and friends the day Chua's article ran. When I finally had a free moment to read the article (writing isn't my day job), I was briefly overwhelmed by a visceral, gushing panic.

You see, growing up in a home like Chua's was no piece of cake, and although I'm close to 40 now, I still bare wounds that haven't healed.

I believe that Chua's abusive parenting is motivated by her own unhappiness. How do I know this? My father told me so. He's the man whose tiger-infused parenting produced the catch phrase that became the title of my memoir, I Love Yous Are for White People.

The only difference between Chua's and my father's parenting technique is that Chua never laid a hand on her daughters (as far as we know).

Amy Chua on being a "Tiger Mother"

Author: 'Tiger' parents leave scars All the same, Chua's modus operandi is to keep her daughters in check via the emotional mind game brain-washing, derision, negative reinforcement, and reverse psychology.

Writing I Love Yous Are for White People helped me to cope with the wounds the tigers' claws left behind. Since its release I've met countless others who bare similar scars.

All my young life, my parents were quick to remind me of my stupidity. Their burning desire to see me achieve at any cost resulted in the same belittling imparted by Chua on her daughters. My parents were particularly preoccupied with my lack of progress in school.

Fixated on the idea that I was a slow learner, they confused my cautiousness with a lack of desire, and my need for affection as the wants of a spoiled American brat.

In telling me that I was a stupid, worthless, waste of space, they believed they were spurning me on to do great things. Like Chua's daughters, they didn't allow time with friends, and no matter how hard I worked, or how dutifully I obeyed their commands.

It was never enough.

When the mind games -- and even beatings -- didn't make me smart enough, my parents resorted to an ancient Chinese "cure" for my stupidity. One Saturday morning when I was in third grade, they sat me down at the kitchen table and plopped a throbbing, round lump of pink flesh the size of a softball onto a plate in front of me. It landed with a splat. I knew it was meat, but nothing I'd ever eaten before.

The oblong hunk of flesh was a cow's brain, and my parents made me eat one every weekend for a year. I didn't get any smarter from the effort.

Three years ago, during a family gathering, my father confessed regret about his choice in parenting. I didn't know what to say. The damage had been done.

I feel for Chua's daughters and imagine they'll have similar conversations with her one day. Chua doesn't seem to wonder if her tiger techniques are overboard, and neither did my father while I was young. He never asked if the abuse was unwarranted, and never questioned whether isolating me from the world was the best way for me to learn how to maneuver in it. In his mind, he had done the right thing.

Now that her parenting has been subjected to intense public scrutiny, Chua has gone on the defensive, saying that the Journal article got it all wrong and her book is really about discovering the error of her ways.

Of course, she also went on the Today Show and said that, if she was given the opportunity to do it all over again, she would, "basically do the same thing."

Not exactly the words of a reformed tiger.

Only by seeing me as an adult, taking a nurturing, accepting approach in rearing my children, did my father realize that there is a better way.

I'm sure I appear successful and happy on the surface ... In spite of this, my parents' approach failed. I'm torn to pieces on the inside.

Now in my mid-thirties, I'm sure I appear successful and happy on the surface. I'm a published author, a successful executive, and I have a Ph.D. in psychology.

In spite of this, my parents' approach failed. I'm torn to pieces on the inside.

I've been through countless hours of psychotherapy, and my lack of self-worth beckons me to rely on alcohol to numb the pain.

I should be chasing my dreams, not chasing pain.

Children need their parents' love and acceptance in order to develop real self-esteem. Belittling children sends the message that they are not worthy of love and support -- as do mind games, emotional abuse, and tight-fisted control.

This message lasts a lifetime. I still question every day if I am, indeed, stupid. I didn't even raise my hand in class until graduate school because I honestly believed that a moron like me has nothing worthy to say.

If I could say one thing to Amy Chua, it's that I would trade every last bit of my success in life to live without the deep wounds given to me by a Tiger Mother.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Lac Su.

CNN

[Jeff K.]

An interesting reply:

Editor's note: Lac Su, a psychologist and business executive at TalentSmart, is the author of I Love Yous are for White People (HarperCollins, 2009).

(CNN) -- When CNN called me this week to see if I'd share my thoughts on the backlash surroundingAmy Chua's Wall Street Journal article "Why Chinese Mothers are Superior," I told them I would have much to say. You see, I was raised by two tigers.

My Chinese father and Vietnamese mother personified the parenting style advocated by Chua. Chua's January 8 article -- based on her new memoir "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" --unleashed a firestorm of criticism for its unabashed assertion that the harsh stereotypically Chinese style of parenting is superior to that of the West.

I received more than 1,000 emails from fans, family, and friends the day Chua's article ran. When I finally had a free moment to read the article (writing isn't my day job), I was briefly overwhelmed by a visceral, gushing panic.

You see, growing up in a home like Chua's was no piece of cake, and although I'm close to 40 now, I still bare wounds that haven't healed.

I believe that Chua's abusive parenting is motivated by her own unhappiness. How do I know this? My father told me so. He's the man whose tiger-infused parenting produced the catch phrase that became the title of my memoir, I Love Yous Are for White People.

The only difference between Chua's and my father's parenting technique is that Chua never laid a hand on her daughters (as far as we know).

Amy Chua on being a "Tiger Mother"

Author: 'Tiger' parents leave scars All the same, Chua's modus operandi is to keep her daughters in check via the emotional mind game brain-washing, derision, negative reinforcement, and reverse psychology.

Writing I Love Yous Are for White People helped me to cope with the wounds the tigers' claws left behind. Since its release I've met countless others who bare similar scars.

All my young life, my parents were quick to remind me of my stupidity. Their burning desire to see me achieve at any cost resulted in the same belittling imparted by Chua on her daughters. My parents were particularly preoccupied with my lack of progress in school.

Fixated on the idea that I was a slow learner, they confused my cautiousness with a lack of desire, and my need for affection as the wants of a spoiled American brat.

In telling me that I was a stupid, worthless, waste of space, they believed they were spurning me on to do great things. Like Chua's daughters, they didn't allow time with friends, and no matter how hard I worked, or how dutifully I obeyed their commands.

It was never enough.

When the mind games -- and even beatings -- didn't make me smart enough, my parents resorted to an ancient Chinese "cure" for my stupidity. One Saturday morning when I was in third grade, they sat me down at the kitchen table and plopped a throbbing, round lump of pink flesh the size of a softball onto a plate in front of me. It landed with a splat. I knew it was meat, but nothing I'd ever eaten before.

The oblong hunk of flesh was a cow's brain, and my parents made me eat one every weekend for a year. I didn't get any smarter from the effort.

Three years ago, during a family gathering, my father confessed regret about his choice in parenting. I didn't know what to say. The damage had been done.

I feel for Chua's daughters and imagine they'll have similar conversations with her one day. Chua doesn't seem to wonder if her tiger techniques are overboard, and neither did my father while I was young. He never asked if the abuse was unwarranted, and never questioned whether isolating me from the world was the best way for me to learn how to maneuver in it. In his mind, he had done the right thing.

Now that her parenting has been subjected to intense public scrutiny, Chua has gone on the defensive, saying that the Journal article got it all wrong and her book is really about discovering the error of her ways.

Of course, she also went on the Today Show and said that, if she was given the opportunity to do it all over again, she would, "basically do the same thing."

Not exactly the words of a reformed tiger.

Only by seeing me as an adult, taking a nurturing, accepting approach in rearing my children, did my father realize that there is a better way.

I'm sure I appear successful and happy on the surface ... In spite of this, my parents' approach failed. I'm torn to pieces on the inside.

Now in my mid-thirties, I'm sure I appear successful and happy on the surface. I'm a published author, a successful executive, and I have a Ph.D. in psychology.

In spite of this, my parents' approach failed. I'm torn to pieces on the inside.

I've been through countless hours of psychotherapy, and my lack of self-worth beckons me to rely on alcohol to numb the pain.

I should be chasing my dreams, not chasing pain.

Children need their parents' love and acceptance in order to develop real self-esteem. Belittling children sends the message that they are not worthy of love and support -- as do mind games, emotional abuse, and tight-fisted control.

This message lasts a lifetime. I still question every day if I am, indeed, stupid. I didn't even raise my hand in class until graduate school because I honestly believed that a moron like me has nothing worthy to say.

If I could say one thing to Amy Chua, it's that I would trade every last bit of my success in life to live without the deep wounds given to me by a Tiger Mother.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Lac Su.

CNN