Applied mormonism: tithing vs. debt elimination

[Jeff K.]

I don't think anyone really knows what the tithing money goes to.

Why should I care? Its not my money.

[sethpayne]

I hope there is no church leader, or member, that would advocate incurring increased debt in order to pay tithing.

I know of some who have received this exact counsel.

[Jeff K.]

To incur additional debt to pay tithing is wrong in my opinion. Tithing goes down with income, if iyou have less then you pay less, it is very simple. There are many ways in which to handle these situations and rarely if ever does a family need to force itself to choose, unless of course they have built up their debt in tithing by not paying.

This sometimes happens around Christmas. It is one reason I choose to pay my estimated tithing on an 11% basis, because aside from some adjustments, I end up never having to pay tithing in December when cashflow can be tight. Its onlly 1% more a month, and it saves a great deal of heart ache.

[Jeanne]

Unless a person believes the prophet of the church is flat out lying, we know that none of it is going towards that mall.

Mr. Monson and the Church does not have to flat out lie. They just conveniently omit or hide those things that are not

relevant to your salvation. Why doesn't the members of the church really know where their tithing dollars are going. I

believe many good LDS people have asked this question. Heck..the State of Utah has asked this question and somehow

all the "arses" are covered. You would have to believe the money does not go to the mall..or even a portion of the

expensive roofing..or the limo..or all the land..believe me, it would make you sick if you thought otherwise. Which I do.

[Pahoran]

Mr. Monson and the Church does not have to flat out lie. They just conveniently omit or hide those things that are not relevant to your salvation. Why doesn't the members of the church really know where their tithing dollars are going. I believe many good LDS people have asked this question. Heck..the State of Utah has asked this question and somehow all the "arses" are covered. You would have to believe the money does not go to the mall..or even a portion of the expensive roofing..or the limo..or all the land..believe me, it would make you sick if you thought otherwise. Which I do.

Since the brethren have flatly denied that tithing funds were used for the mall, they would have to have flat-out lied about that.

You are entitled to believe that President Monson and the other GA's are completely venal if it makes you feel better about yourself; there's no evidence to support such a belief, though.

And thinking ill of people without evidence is not something that would make me feel better about myself.

Neither would slyly insinuating nasty hints about people because I lacked the moral courage to come right out with the accusation I wanted others to believe but for which I was too cowardly to take responsibility.

I have long observed that the brethren are better than their accusers. Without exception.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

You would have to believe the money does not go to the mall..or even a portion of the

expensive roofing..or the limo..or all the land..believe me, it would make you sick if you thought otherwise. Which I do.

Were is your evidence. So far we have naked assertion. Golly, what should we do with that Mrs, Jeanne?

[bluebell]

Mr. Monson and the Church does not have to flat out lie. They just conveniently omit or hide those things that are not

relevant to your salvation.

They have specificially stated that none of the money being used for the mall was tithing. Either we believe them, or they are lying.

There is no other way around it.

Why doesn't the members of the church really know where their tithing dollars are going. I

believe many good LDS people have asked this question. Heck..the State of Utah has asked this question and somehow

all the "arses" are covered. You would have to believe the money does not go to the mall..or even a portion of the

expensive roofing..or the limo..or all the land..believe me, it would make you sick if you thought otherwise. Which I do.

We know what tithing money is used for, it's no secret.

Can i ask, do you pay tithing to the LDS church?

[SilverKnight]

Can i ask, do you pay tithing to the LDS church?

I am quite positive she does not - but that does not stop her from being very indignant about how it is used.

[Jeff K.]

Were is your evidence. So far we have naked assertion. Golly, what should we do with that Mrs, Jeanne?

Naked assertions should be R rated or restricted on posts. I prefer partially guarded assertions or those with a PG rating.

[Jeanne]

I used to pay tithing. Alot of it..and even went to the Bishop to ask if I was paying enough. No one here really knows me okay? Maybe they are

assertions that I feel and with observations in some of the things I have read I have made up my own mind or at least question. I have that right

as others here do. I won't delve into alot of things and I won't say "I KNOW WHERE THE MONEY GOES" because I really don't know for sure, but

never say in the face of where I have been that I lack courage.

Regards,

Jeanne

[Pahoran]

I used to pay tithing. Alot of it..and even went to the Bishop to ask if I was paying enough. No one here really knows me okay?

You know what, Jeanne? You're right. Nobody here really knows you.

We only know what you post.

And when you post nonsense, we are entitled to point it out.

It's not about you, Jeanne. It's about your posts, and the content thereof.

Maybe they are assertions that I feel and with observations in some of the things I have read I have made up my own mind or at least question. I have that right as others here do. I won't delve into alot of things and I won't say "I KNOW WHERE THE MONEY GOES" because I really don't know for sure,

In which case, it is at least highly uncharitable to assert or imply that the tithing money is lining the pockets of the GA's.

Because there is not a shred of evidence that it is doing so.

but never say in the face of where I have been that I lack courage.

Again: no-one knows where you have (or have not) been.

And that is not the issue.

When posts contain sly, "plausiibly deniable" insinuations that attack the character of respected people, that is not an act of courage; regardless of where the poster may or may not have been.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I used to pay tithing.

Great. So what.

Alot of it..

I have no idea what this means, not that that matters anyway.

and even went to the Bishop to ask if I was paying enough. No one here really knows me okay?

That is fine that you went to the bishop to ask. I fail to see the relevance. No one claimed to know you. You just should not pretened to know things that you don't really know.

Maybe they are assertions

They are and that is all we have seen so far.

that I feel and with observations in some of the things I have read I have made up my own mind or at least question.

So you have observed some thing and read other things. So I ask again for your evidence. Do you ahve anything more than "I just know some of that tithing money is going to the mall".

I have that right

as others here do.

No one argued differently. Just don't get bent out of shape because don't accept what you say as wholesale truth.

I won't delve into alot of things and I won't say "I KNOW WHERE THE MONEY GOES" because I really don't know for sure,

Well, that is at least a start that you admit taht you are really just asserting things. YOu can learn from this, you know?

but

never say in the face of where I have been that I lack courage.

Regards,

Jeanne

Who claimed you lacked courage? I will point out that bald assertions are really not that couragous though.

[Jeanne]

Were is your evidence. So far we have naked assertion. Golly, what should we do with that Mrs, Jeanne?

Better still, where are the financial records of the church??

[bluebell]

Better still, where are the financial records of the church??

Are you suggesting that if an organization refuses to disclose it's financial information, it is acceptable to accuse them of misconduct, regardless of whether or not there is any evidence to support the accusations?

[Tchild2]

This came up in high priest lesson this past week. The class was divided. Here's the scenario:

Bill & Sally are in debt, and want to follow the counsel of the LDS prophets to get out of debt. However, they are in a bit of a bind. You see, Bill & Sally have a monthly budget that looks like this:

Income: $1200

Expenses (assume they are modest and can't be reduced): $1000

Tithing: $120

Debt payment: $120

Monthly balance: ($40)

The question is this: Are Bill & Sally justified in using their tithing to pay off their debt, until that debt has been eliminated? Please, no solutions like, "Pray about it", or "Bill/Sally can get a better paying job", or, "They should do <some financial trick>"... Let stick to the core issue - Will God understand if Bill & Sally use tithing money to pay debt?

H.

If they decide that they are full tithe payers on their "increase", then it is their decision to make and in their yearly TR interviews if they can declare themselves as full tithe payers, then they are justified.

What would this couple care what anonymous internet posters opine about the safety, security and future of their family and children anyway?