When will this Prophecy be Fulfilled?

[Uncle Dale]

We read in 2nd Nephi:

And it shall come to pass that the Jews which are scattered, also shall begin to believe in Christ;

and they shall begin to gather in upon the face of the land; and as many as shall believe

in Christ, shall also become a delightsome people.

The word "begin" is very indefinite here. If we consider millions of Jews,

"scattered" around the world, the conversion of just a few dozen of them

would qualify for a "beginning."

But the passage offers a way in which we can perhaps assess the progress

of this "believing" and "gathering," for we are told here that those who

convert to the true religion "shall also become a delightsome people."

Now, as many of you know, I have an extended Jewish family -- and, to me

at least, those folks seem to be a "delightsome people." They do not,

however, accept the Book of Mormon, the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc.

When will the 2nd Nephi prophecy be fulfilled? In this century?

Or, might it take longer than that?

UD

.

[CA Steve]

Is "delightsome people" a reference to a physical characteristic or is there another interpretation?

[Uncle Dale]

Is "delightsome people" a reference to a physical characteristic or is there another interpretation?

For the Lamanites it is paired with being "white" or being "pure."

In the case of converted Jews, there is no reference to color,

nor to a skin of blackness, etc.

"Delightsome" appears to be an attribute of being righteous, or at

least an attribute of being good, wholesome, attractive -- and,

perhaps in having "joy," as the Book of Mormon says.

We can thus compare a Jew who has converted to Mormonism with

a Jew who has not -- or, better yet, a converted family compared

with a family who still observes the Law of Moses.

In some discernible way, those converted Jews should be "delightsome,"

while the Judaism adherents are not. As I understand the BoM's

application of the term, it is not just perceptible to God and

the holy angels --- we humans should be able to notice the change.

UD

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Verses such as these in the Book of Mormon lead me to wonder whether the current state of Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy about the gathering of the Jews.

[thesometimesaint]

BookofMormonLuvr:

It is. But until they become a lot more righteous they won't become delightsome.

[Uncle Dale]

Verses such as these in the Book of Mormon lead me to wonder whether the current state of Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy about the gathering of the Jews.

However, the Jews who have moved to Israel are among

the most adamant in upholding the Law of Moses.

It is the Jews who have remained scattered throughout

the world who have a more respectful attitude regarding

Jesus. I have known Jews who considered Jesus to be a

great rabbi and a teacher of righteousness. I do not

think that this viewpoint is popular in Israel today.

So, the gathering spoken of in 2nd Nephi is to be coupled

with conversion to Christ. It is the gathered Jews who

should be the most accepting of Jesus -- not the Jews like

my wife, who refuse to move to Israel.

That is why I asked WHEN?

Because the situation as we see it today does not match

the end-times view presented in 2nd Nephi.

I think it very, very, very unlikely that a significant

number of Jews will convert to Mormonism in my lifetime.

UD

[oremites]

Where does that scripture say that the Jews will convert to Christianity?

[thesometimesaint]

oremites:

At the Second Coming.

[Palerider]

We read in 2nd Nephi:

The word "begin" is very indefinite here. If we consider millions of Jews,

"scattered" around the world, the conversion of just a few dozen of them

would qualify for a "beginning."

But the passage offers a way in which we can perhaps assess the progress

of this "believing" and "gathering," for we are told here that those who

convert to the true religion "shall also become a delightsome people."

Now, as many of you know, I have an extended Jewish family -- and, to me

at least, those folks seem to be a "delightsome people." They do not,

however, accept the Book of Mormon, the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc.

When will the 2nd Nephi prophecy be fulfilled? In this century?

Or, might it take longer than that?

UD

.

Having read the Old Testament for the fourth time now and looking for just this subject (regarding the gathering of Israel) I can say that I am more and more impressed that Israel (including the Jews) will be gathered after the great war in Israel and after the Second Coming of Christ. I know this runs counter to LDS and some other Christian faiths but when I read the prophesies carefully it begins to become apparent.

For example: Psalms 102: 16-22

16 When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory. 17 He will regard the prayer of the destitute, and not despise their prayer. 18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD. 19 For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the LORD behold the earth; 20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death; 21 To declare the name of the LORD in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem; 22 When the people are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve the LORD.

[Uncle Dale]

...Israel (including the Jews) will be gathered after the great war in

Israel and after the Second Coming of Christ.

...

Not too surprising of a conversion, if the Jews see the Book of Revelation

acted out upon their very doorsteps, and Christ leading the hosts of heaven,

mounted upon a great white battle horse.

Sounds to me like the provision for free agency would be removed. Perhaps

the LDS doctrine at least has the element of consistency, in allowing the

Jews to convert by faith and not by apocalyptic coercion.

???

UD

[ELF1024]

Having read the Old Testament for the fourth time now and looking for just this subject (regarding the gathering of Israel) I can say that I am more and more impressed that Israel (including the Jews) will be gathered after the great war in Israel and after the Second Coming of Christ. I know this runs counter to LDS and some other Christian faiths but when I read the prophesies carefully it begins to become apparent.

For example: Psalms 102: 16-22

16 When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory. 17 He will regard the prayer of the destitute, and not despise their prayer. 18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD. 19 For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the LORD behold the earth; 20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death; 21 To declare the name of the LORD in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem; 22 When the people are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve the LORD.

FWIW, my Gospel Principles teacher agrees with you. Before the temple is rebuilt, and thus it would make sense that before Israel is truely gathered, the entire area of Israel is supposed to cleansed and wiped out. (according to him)

That sounds like the nuclear ambitions of Iran to me, but I'm not a Prophet and don't play one on TV.

[cinepro]

In his book "All Abraham's Children", Armand Mauss tells how the LDS Church made specific missionary efforts towards the Jewish people in the 1950's. After several years and tries in several different cities, there were fewer than 50 converts.

The story starts on page 174 here.

Interestingly, an entirely new lesson plan was developed, and Jesus wasn't mentioned at all until the fourth lesson!

[Palerider]

Not too surprising of a conversion, if the Jews see the Book of Revelation

acted out upon their very doorsteps, and Christ leading the hosts of heaven,

mounted upon a great white battle horse.

Sounds to me like the provision for free agency would be removed. Perhaps

the LDS doctrine at least has the element of consistency, in allowing the

Jews to convert by faith and not by apocalyptic coercion.

???

UD

I think the majority of Jews and the hidden house of Israel will still be among the nations of the world and that emissaries will be sent from Jerusalem to aid in the work of conversion. I don't believe that seeing (whether live or on media) the destruction of the enemies of Israel, or the Second Coming automatically destroys ones free agency to choose or not choose Christ.

Look carefully at the order of the entire Isaiah Chapter 11.

See also Isaiah 25: 7-9

7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it. 9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

I believe this will be a relatively short but gradual process, not instantaneous.

[thesometimesaint]

ELF1024:

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=45da4133e732d2bcc5e9f8a83e1a0e6e

The simple fact of the matter is that Iran doesn't need The Bomb. All it has to do is block the straits of Hormuz and much of rest of the world will be shivering in the dark in a matter of days.

[Uncle Dale]

...Jesus wasn't mentioned at all until the fourth lesson!

And so a certain "church" removed the plain and precious parts of

the fulness of the Gospel, in order to satisfy the precepts of men?

That activity seems strangely familiar -- now where was it........

UD

[changed]

If we consider millions of Jews,

"scattered" around the world, the conversion of just a few dozen of them

would qualify for a "beginning.".

Is this a beginning?

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/

[Uncle Dale]

Is this a beginning?

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/

No, I don't think so.

Messianic Jews who claim Jesus stand in a strange,

in-between situation, neither creedal Christians

nor mainstream Jews.

While I respect them and their efforts at finding

the truth, I do not think they fit into the scenario

depicted in the Book of Mormon, for the end-times.

Nor do they quite fit the pattern outlined in 2nd Nephi,

of being "dead unto the law," but nevertheless obeying it.

Jews do not observe the Mosaic law as a means to personal

continuance after death -- it is not for individual

salvation. The law is observed because it is a testament

to Israel's covenant with YHWH.

How Jews-for-Jesus reconcile the Sinai covenant with

the "new covenant" spoken of in the Gospels, I do not

know -- but I strongly suspect that such reconciliation

would have been anathema to Nephi and Alma.

If anything, I think that the Jews-for-Jesus phenomenon

betokens a wider interest in Jesus than just the message

evangelized by Christianity. I've met Hindus who honor

Jesus at a high level -- even atheists who speak well of him.

As the rarefied historical Jesus begins to take on some

substance, I suppose that he will be more and more honored

outside of Christianity. I think that the Jews-for-Jesus

phenomenon will lead more in that direction than to the

conversion of the Jews to Mormonism.

UD

[Palerider]

No, I don't think so.

Messianic Jews who claim Jesus stand in a strange,

in-between situation, neither creedal Christians

nor mainstream Jews.

While I respect them and their efforts at finding

the truth, I do not think they fit into the scenario

depicted in the Book of Mormon, for the end-times.

Nor do they quite fit the pattern outlined in 2nd Nephi,

of being "dead unto the law," but nevertheless obeying it.

Jews do not observe the Mosaic law as a means to personal

continuance after death -- it is not for individual

salvation. The law is observed because it is a testament

to Israel's covenant with YHWH.

How Jews-for-Jesus reconcile the Sinai covenant with

the "new covenant" spoken of in the Gospels, I do not

know -- but I strongly suspect that such reconciliation

would have been anathema to Nephi and Alma.

If anything, I think that the Jews-for-Jesus phenomenon

betokens a wider interest in Jesus than just the message

evangelized by Christianity. I've met Hindus who honor

Jesus at a high level -- even atheists who speak well of him.

As the rarefied historical Jesus begins to take on some

substance, I suppose that he will be more and more honored

outside of Christianity. I think that the Jews-for-Jesus

phenomenon will lead more in that direction than to the

conversion of the Jews to Mormonism.

UD

Just as a matter of clarification, I was speaking above of the House of Israel (Judah being included) as being converted to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His Messiahship....... Not their conversion to Mormonism.

At "the day of His coming" all of Christianity will have to "get in line".... Latter Day Saints just like everybody else.

[brightpath]

This should happen when the 2 Jewish prophets are raised up to them and then they will kill them and they will lay in the streets for 3 days then arise. Many Jews will start to believe at this point and then when Christ comes to save them at the War of Armeggedon.