Nephi's Broken Bow

[volgadon]

Contra "Lehi in the Desert" I don't feel that Lehi was at all a desert adept, but rather a city or village dweller without much experience of the desert. There are too many moments in the book that make no sense if that is not the case. The whole incident of the broken bow is a case in point.

The bows belonging to Nephi's brothers were not suited to the desert climate, they lost their spring, presumably, they dried up and hardened when away from the humid climate around Jerusalem. The whole family apart from Nephi panics and despairs. Were Lehi a desert adept, he would not have despaired, but made slings (as Nephi did), traps, snares, gins, and other hunting implements. One does not survive in the desert by giving up, one survives by reacting and adapting.

[Uncle Dale]

Contra "Lehi in the Desert" I don't feel that Lehi was at all a desert adept, but rather a city or village dweller without much experience of the desert. There are too many moments in the book that make no sense if that is not the case. The whole incident of the broken bow is a case in point.

The bows belonging to Nephi's brothers were not suited to the desert climate, they lost their spring, presumably, they dried up and hardened when away from the humid climate around Jerusalem. The whole family apart from Nephi panics and despairs. Were Lehi a desert adept, he would not have despaired, but made slings (as Nephi did), traps, snares, gins, and other hunting implements. One does not survive in the desert by giving up, one survives by reacting and adapting.

No doubt this phenomenon explains the Egyptian defeat at the hands

of the Assyrians, Hittites, or whomever --- their pliant Nile bows

became useless away from the moisture of the river.

I doubt that the ancients were that stupid -- or that bows became

useless, when carried out of Jerusalem and down to the Jordan or

the Negev, or into Arabia.

UD

[David Bokovoy]

Contra "Lehi in the Desert" I don't feel that Lehi was at all a desert adept, but rather a city or village dweller without much experience of the desert. There are too many moments in the book that make no sense if that is not the case. The whole incident of the broken bow is a case in point.

The bows belonging to Nephi's brothers were not suited to the desert climate, they lost their spring, presumably, they dried up and hardened when away from the humid climate around Jerusalem. The whole family apart from Nephi panics and despairs. Were Lehi a desert adept, he would not have despaired, but made slings (as Nephi did), traps, snares, gins, and other hunting implements. One does not survive in the desert by giving up, one survives by reacting and adapting.

Great insight. I had come to the same conclusion through out pieces of textual clues. This reading adds greater significance to Nephi's declaration of his Father's desert trial: "And my father dwelt in a tent" (1 Nephi 2:15).

Thanks for sharing your insight.

[Sandy Petersen]

Self Bows (made of one piece of wood) can turn brittle in a very dry climate. English longbows brought to the Holy Land did eventually break, but it took months or years for it to happen. In the same way, composite bows (made of multiple materials) will delaminate in humid climates over time. If the Mongols had stayed in Europe for more than a year they may have needed to replace their bows.

I've never heard of bows made in Palestine to be unusable in the rest of Arabia though.

But the Book of Mormon doesn't say why Nephi's bow broke - any bow can break. Perhaps he dropped it, or a flaw in the wood grain popped out, or he forgot to unstring it overnight. I'm not sure this is very trenchant evidence for Lehi not being a desert traveller. Not saying he was or wasn't.

[Gervin]

One does not survive in the desert by giving up, one survives by reacting and adapting.

Nephi's pretty tough living off raw meat and all. He seems like a city boy, though, taking a full 8 years to travel the approximately 500 miles eastward from Nahom to Bountiful - 62 miles a year (or about 900 feet a day) slogging through the wilderness.

1 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey in the wilderness; and we did travel nearly eastward from that time forth. And we did travel and awade through much affliction in the wilderness; and our women did bear children in the wilderness.

2 And so great were the blessings of the Lord upon us, that while we did live upon raw meat in the wilderness, our women did give plenty of suck for their children, and were strong, yea, even like unto the men; and they began to bear their journeyings without murmurings.

3 And thus we see that the commandments of God must be fulfilled. And if it so be that the children of men keep the commandments of God he doth nourish them, and strengthen them, and provide means whereby they can accomplish the thing which he has commanded them; wherefore, he did provide means for us while we did sojourn in the wilderness.

4 And we did sojourn for the space of many years, yea, even eight years in the wilderness.

[jadams_4242]

Contra "Lehi in the Desert" I don't feel that Lehi was at all a desert adept, but rather a city or village dweller without much experience of the desert. There are too many moments in the book that make no sense if that is not the case. The whole incident of the broken bow is a case in point.

The bows belonging to Nephi's brothers were not suited to the desert climate, they lost their spring, presumably, they dried up and hardened when away from the humid climate around Jerusalem. The whole family apart from Nephi panics and despairs. Were Lehi a desert adept, he would not have despaired, but made slings (as Nephi did), traps, snares, gins, and other hunting implements. One does not survive in the desert by giving up, one survives by reacting and adapting.

I think they started using carbonite laminate bows after that!

[volgadon]

Self Bows (made of one piece of wood) can turn brittle in a very dry climate. English longbows brought to the Holy Land did eventually break, but it took months or years for it to happen. In the same way, composite bows (made of multiple materials) will delaminate in humid climates over time. If the Mongols had stayed in Europe for more than a year they may have needed to replace their bows.

I've never heard of bows made in Palestine to be unusable in the rest of Arabia though.

But the Book of Mormon doesn't say why Nephi's bow broke - any bow can break. Perhaps he dropped it, or a flaw in the wood grain popped out, or he forgot to unstring it overnight. I'm not sure this is very trenchant evidence for Lehi not being a desert traveller. Not saying he was or wasn't.

Actually, I was thinking of the bow belonging to Nephi's brothers. Perhaps I am wrong on the bows and climate, not my main point, but the climate in Arabia is a lot drier than in the Jerusalem region.

[volgadon]

Nephi's pretty tough living off raw meat and all.

That came later.

[Tribunal]

Great insight. I had come to the same conclusion through out pieces of textual clues. This reading adds greater significance to Nephi's declaration of his Father's desert trial: "And my father dwelt in a tent" (1 Nephi 2:15).

Thanks for sharing your insight.

1 Nephi 2:15 is one of my favorite verses, because it was the easiest to remember back in my youthful, sarcastic, seminary days, but what does it mean? "And my father dwelt in a tent"? There must be a lot of meaning behind it if someone is going to engrave that onto a metal plate!

[Robert F. Smith]

Nephi's pretty tough living off raw meat and all. He seems like a city boy, though, taking a full 8 years to travel the approximately 500 miles eastward from Nahom to Bountiful - 62 miles a year (or about 900 feet a day) slogging through the wilderness.

Reminds me of the late great Louis B. Leakey wanting to know how paleolithic man killed, butchered, and ate animals before the invention of fire. Somewhere in Kenya, Leakey took a sharp stone tool he had made to ancient specifications, hid behind a bush, and (when one wandered by) he jumped a small Thompson's gazelle, killed it, and ate some of it raw.

As to the 8 years in the wilderness before arriving at Bountiful, we do not know how long Lehi & Clan stayed in the Valley of Lemuel before moving on, nor how long they spent at any other location. The text does not say that the 8 years were spent between Nahom and Bountiful, although that is a possible interpretation. Note 1 Nephi 17:1 "we did again take our journey in the wilderness," which leads me to take the 8 years as a grand total "sojourn," from ca. 596 to 588 B.C. Certainly the Lehites did not know of the 586 B.C. conquest of Jerusalem by the Neo-Babylonians until after landfall in the New World (2 Nephi 1:4). News took no longer than 3 months to travel down the ancient Incense Trail.

[Robert F. Smith]

Contra "Lehi in the Desert" I don't feel that Lehi was at all a desert adept, but rather a city or village dweller without much experience of the desert. There are too many moments in the book that make no sense if that is not the case. The whole incident of the broken bow is a case in point.

The bows belonging to Nephi's brothers were not suited to the desert climate, they lost their spring, presumably, they dried up and hardened when away from the humid climate around Jerusalem. The whole family apart from Nephi panics and despairs. Were Lehi a desert adept, he would not have despaired, but made slings (as Nephi did), traps, snares, gins, and other hunting implements. One does not survive in the desert by giving up, one survives by reacting and adapting.

The first thing Father Lehi does after arriving in that place in the wilderness along the shore of the Red Sea (the Tihama) is to build an altar and make a sacrifice (1 Nephi 2:5-7). This is no first-time desert traveler, nor a man who would be ill at ease in the company of Abraham.

Apparently quoting Harmer, Hugh Nibley noted that

[Robert F. Smith]

Self Bows (made of one piece of wood) can turn brittle in a very dry climate. English longbows brought to the Holy Land did eventually break, but it took months or years for it to happen. In the same way, composite bows (made of multiple materials) will delaminate in humid climates over time. If the Mongols had stayed in Europe for more than a year they may have needed to replace their bows.

I've never heard of bows made in Palestine to be unusable in the rest of Arabia though.

But the Book of Mormon doesn't say why Nephi's bow broke - any bow can break. Perhaps he dropped it, or a flaw in the wood grain popped out, or he forgot to unstring it overnight. I'm not sure this is very trenchant evidence for Lehi not being a desert traveller. Not saying he was or wasn't.

Nephi's bow was made of "fine steel" (1 Nephi 16:18). This probably means that the steel was tempered (repeatedly carburized, quenched, and hammered), and may have been entirely of steel or part of a composite bow. By the time of Nephi, blacksmiths had been making steel for hundreds of years in Judah and Israel.

Whatever the case, the breaking of his bow constitutes not only symbolic loss of vigor and virility, but also a direct threat of death (Nahum Waldman,

[Gervin]

Reminds me of the late great Louis B. Leakey wanting to know how paleolithic man killed, butchered, and ate animals before the invention of fire. Somewhere in Kenya, Leakey took a sharp stone tool he had made to ancient specifications, hid behind a bush, and (when one wandered by) he jumped a small Thompson's gazelle, killed it, and ate some of it raw.

Reminds me of Dylan's "Street Legal."

As to the 8 years in the wilderness before arriving at Bountiful, we do not know how long Lehi & Clan stayed in the Valley of Lemuel before moving on

Has the location of the Valley of Lemuel been verified? Please point me to a map.

The text does not say that the 8 years were spent between Nahom and Bountiful,

It says they moved in a general eastward direction. Where else do you suppose they went?

News took no longer than 3 months to travel down the ancient Incense Trail.

I imagine that it took no more than a matter of weeks, but do you assume they were on the Incense Trail while wandering in the wilderness?

[volgadon]

The first thing Father Lehi does after arriving in that place in the wilderness along the shore of the Red Sea (the Tihama) is to build an altar and make a sacrifice (1 Nephi 2:5-7). This is no first-time desert traveler, nor a man who would be ill at ease in the company of Abraham.

Apparently quoting Harmer, Hugh Nibley noted that

[volgadon]

Whatever the case, the breaking of his bow constitutes not only symbolic loss of vigor and virility, but also a direct threat of death (Nahum Waldman,

[Glenn101]

Personally, considering family literacy and Nephi's scribal techniques, I think it likey that they were scribes, probably employed mainly by merchants. This would explain Egyptian script (or possibly an Egytian-Jewish language), as the surviving scripts have all been from a mercantile context.

Were scribes paid so highly that they could amass a seemingly large fortune?

My take is that whatever vocation Lehi was actually in, he was one accustomed to traveling in a caravan and did not actually do much of the work himself. Nibley's premise that he was a trader of some sort is plausible. I have never considered him a Bedouin since he seemingly had a fixed home somewhere near Jerusalem and would have used that as a base of operations for any type of trade.

Glenn

[urroner]

1 Nephi 2:15 is one of my favorite verses, because it was the easiest to remember back in my youthful, sarcastic, seminary days, but what does it mean? "And my father dwelt in a tent"? There must be a lot of meaning behind it if someone is going to engrave that onto a metal plate!

I just sent David B. a question along this line.

I have heard that in many of the ancient middle east myths that El was considered to be a tent dweller. Also, David, in Psalm 61:4 said:

I long to dwell in your tent forever and take refuge in the shelter of your wings. Selah

Does Nephi saying several times that his father, Lehi, lived in a tent have any correlation with El being a tent-dweller?

Also, as a side note, does Abraham 2:15-16 have anything to do with this also? I have always liked verse 16, but there seems to be a lot more behind this verse than I understand.

15 And I took Sarai, whom I took to wife when I was in Ur, in Chaldea, and Lot, my brother

[volgadon]

I just sent David B. a question along this line.

I have heard that in many of the ancient middle east myths that El was considered to be a tent dweller. Also, David, in Psalm 61:4 said:

Does Nephi saying several times that his father, Lehi, lived in a tent have any correlation with El being a tent-dweller?

Also, as a side note, does Abraham 2:15-16 have anything to do with this also? I have always liked verse 16, but there seems to be a lot more behind this verse than I understand.

I don't want to derail this thread, but if anybody could give any insight, I'd really appreciate it.

I posted on this in the past, the key for Lehi, I feel, is Genesis 25:27.

[urroner]

I posted on this in the past, the key for Lehi, I feel, is Genesis 25:27.

Genesis 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.

I have heard this comparison before, would this mean that Jacob was a worshiper of El, while Esau worshiped another god or am I trying to read more into it there there is in it?

BTW, do you remember where you posted it volgadon?

[volgadon]

Genesis 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.

I have heard this comparison before, would this mean that Jacob was a worshiper of El, while Esau worshiped another god or am I trying to read more into it there there is in it?

BTW, do you remember where you posted it volgadon?

I don't remember where, think it was entitled so originaly, something like "And My Father Dwelt in a Tent."

The Hebrew has a righteous, or justified man. It has to do with jacob's character, the actors in this drama have very low opinions of Jacob, they don't have all the story, and thus misjudge him. Nephi was defending his father's character, by refering back to Jacob.

[urroner]

I don't remember where, think it was entitled so originaly, something like "And My Father Dwelt in a Tent."

The Hebrew has a righteous, or justified man. It has to do with jacob's character, the actors in this drama have very low opinions of Jacob, they don't have all the story, and thus misjudge him. Nephi was defending his father's character, by refering back to Jacob.

Found it. I googled "volgadon tent" and it was at the top of the list.

Good stuff.

[USU78]

Perhaps the wise scribe invested in ventures to which he became privy while pursuing his trade? "Insider trading" isn't exactly a new concept, after all: the Romans were masters at it.

Also: I'm wondering whether a particularly trusted scribe might not accompany traders so that the Judahite trader need not rely on Egyptian scribes who might not have foreigners' best interests at heart when they drafted contracts, orders, bills of sale, bills of lading, and the like. Bring your own scribe, protect your interests.

[volgadon]

Perhaps the wise scribe invested in ventures to which he became privy while pursuing his trade? "Insider trading" isn't exactly a new concept, after all: the Romans were masters at it.

Also: I'm wondering whether a particularly trusted scribe might not accompany traders so that the Judahite trader need not rely on Egyptian scribes who might not have foreigners' best interests at heart when they drafted contracts, orders, bills of sale, bills of lading, and the like. Bring your own scribe, protect your interests.

Something along those lines.

Also, we don't really know how wealthy Lehi was.

[Robert F. Smith]

Has the location of the Valley of Lemuel been verified? Please point me to a map.

It says they moved in a general eastward direction. Where else do you suppose they went?

I imagine that it took no more than a matter of weeks, but do you assume they were on the Incense Trail while wandering in the wilderness?

No, the location of the Valley of Lemuel has not been discovered or verified. All we know is that it is three days journey south along the Red Sea Coast after arrival in the vicinity of Aqaba/Eilat (1 Nephi 2:5-6).

I'm not proposing that they went anywhere else or in any other direction, only that the eight years in 1 Nephi 17:4 is a grand total of the amount of time they spent in the wilderness -- including before and after Nahom.

It took three months for a typical camel caravan of frankincense & myrrh to travel from Saba (Sheba) to Gaza. Lehi and clan certainly avoided the main incense route, but undoubtedly came in contact with people familiar with the latest news during their sojourn.

[Robert F. Smith]

My point is that a Bedouin or desert adept would not have considered a broken bow as a direct threat of death. Someone from a different environment would have. Bedouins had plenty of tricks up their sleaves. Things get broken or lost all the time. The key to survival in the desert is quickly adapting to the situation, or anticipating it. A desert adept would have provided himself with slings, or fashioned a primitive bow before commencing a hunt, as Nephi subsequently did. A Bedouin would also have laid traps and snares. During my highschool years I read a large amount of ethnographical material on Bedouins, and also know quite a few of them. I did after all grow up near a large village of them.

Personally, considering family literacy and Nephi's scribal techniques, I think it likey that they were scribes, probably employed mainly by merchants. This would explain Egyptian script (or possibly an Egytian-Jewish language), as the surviving scripts have all been from a mercantile context.

Were scribes paid so highly that they could amass a seemingly large fortune?

My take is that whatever vocation Lehi was actually in, he was one accustomed to traveling in a caravan and did not actually do much of the work himself. Nibley's premise that he was a trader of some sort is plausible. I have never considered him a Bedouin since he seemingly had a fixed home somewhere near Jerusalem and would have used that as a base of operations for any type of trade.

Glenn

I'm personally torn between several possible views or approaches to figuring out what Clan Lehi was really composed of, and how it functioned. On the one hand, I can imagine scribal apprenticeships for young Lehi and then young Nephi in turn, in either Phoenicia or in Egypt. Tvedtnes makes a good argument for a blacksmithing apprenticeship for Nephi at least. Did Lehi make a fortune as a tinker & trader?

By the way, Nephi was already equipped with slings and stones before his bow got broken (1 Nephi 16:15), so he seems to have come well prepared.

My years with the Marine Corps taught me that one does not suddenly adapt to a new situation out of necessity, but rather out of long experience and preparation. Everything Lehi does, including his solemn declamation in 1 Nephi 2:9-10, bespeak long experience with traveling in harsh environs. Only the frequent training cycles of the IDF reserves make it possible for them to leave their civilian occupations and to quickly muster for combat. I saw them do it and knew what to look for. I was very impressed with their effectiveness in combat during the Six-Day War.

I see the Clan Lehi as less a bedouin group (I have eaten with them and spent time with them on several occasions) and more akin to Abraham and his entourage of sojourners, or perhaps akin to that famous group of Semitic merchants and their families shown entering Egypt on a colorful 12th dynasty tomb painting at Beni Hasan, Egypt. I'm sure that you have seen it. Replace the donkeys with camels and you have Lehi & Co.