Solomon Spalding (for the millionth time)

[Glenn101]

Probably the most productive period that could be researched

in this regard, would be Dec. 1825-March 1827 for Rigdon

and March 1826-Sept. 1826 for Smith.

UD

Very probably, if further research finds any more evidence, it will be that Joseph worked with Josiah Stowell for several more months past the March 20th "Glass Looker" and then was hired by Joseph Knight. In other words, Chenango and Broome Counties, both in New york. But good luck in your endeavors.

Glenn

[Uncle Dale]

...

worked with Josiah Stowell for several more months

...

If Smith was allowed to escape the custody of the

court, it does not make much sense that he would have

stuck around the area where the court had jurisdiction.

In 1830, when the charges were again brought before

the court, Smith was arrested in two adjacent counties

in the same area as the 1826 hearing. I think this shows

that there was a continual danger of his arrest so long

as he was anywhere near Stowell (and Stowell's relatives,

who were the ones pressing the charges.

Smith's lawyer said his client went "west" immediately

after the 1826 hearing. Smith himself professed to have

traveled to the Pennsylvania panhandle, on the Ohio border

in search of a magic stone. Thurlow Weed, who met Smith

two or three years later, said Smith had been in the west.

Another New York resident from the 1826 period said Smith

traveled at least as far west as Batavia, New York. A

schoolteacher in Auburn and Bainbridge, Ohio, said Smith

was present there at about this time.

The Smith's next door neighbors on the south, recalled

that Alvin had gone west for a while at an earlier date.

He could have hitched a ride with the Smith's next door

neighbors on the west, some of whom moved to Auburn, Ohio

before Alvin died. Each year thereafter there was a

migration of Manchester/Palmyra residents moving to Auburn.

That's where Isaac Butts ended up -- who said he knew Smith,

and that Rigdon was known in both the Auburn and Palmyra

areas. Another of the Staffords (Gadius)moved to Auburn

prior to 1830. He had been a treasure-hunting companion

of Joseph's, back in Manchester.

If Joseph had a desire to get away from Stowell's angry

relatives, he could probably have hitched a ride to Auburn

with Manchester or Palmyra farmers moving there in 1826.

Lawrence Greatrake said (in 1826) that Rigdon was associated

with a glass-looker in the Auburn area at that time --

(although that person could have been Gadius Stafford, who

evidently brought the family seerstone to Auburn at that time).

All in all, I'd say investigation of the Auburn, Ohio area

in mid-1826 might prove fruitful. We know for certain that

Rigdon was there, but had not yet found a full-time job. We

also know that Joseph Smith was alleged to have been there

at the same time. I think it would be worthwhile to research

the possibility.

UD

[why me]

Has anyone ever tried to put together a comprehensive timeline showing the locations/movements of early key figures to prove there was no physical opportunity for these people to even cross paths?

Uncle Dale and the daleites are attemtping to do so for years. But nothing has come of it yet. But who knows...maybe someday there will be a connection.

[why me]

Craig Criddle has been working on that project for a couple of

years now. Although he cannot set a firm date for the probable

first meeting between Smith and Rigdon, he concludes that they

must have been working together by early 1826.

UD

Any proof? Or is it just a conclusion? I tend to think that it is just a conclusion based on speculation.

[Glenn101]

If Smith was allowed to escape the custody of the

court, it does not make much sense that he would have

stuck around the area where the court had jurisdiction.

------------------------------

The big "IF" again. There is no direct evidence that Joseph was bound over for a trial. The evidence for a "conviction" is contradictory at best. However, there is evidence that he did continue working for Josiah Stowell for several more months past that trial date. And Joseph Knight does remember hiring Joseph sometime in the fall because Josiah didn't have the money to continue employing Joseph.

Joseph at the time was courting Emma. Knight remembers lending Joseph a horse and buggy on occasions so he could visit her in Harmony. Who would have thought that twenty year old Joseph would have decided not to visit the comely Emma and instead opt to take off to Ohio instead????

That 1830 trials were instigated by the same A.W. Benton who declared Joseph was found guilt in the 1826 trial. Benton was not allowed to introduce anything from the 1826 trial, which would have been odd if he had been found guilty.

But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, is the current couplet in vogue.

Glenn

[cdowis]

For example, since last I advised you to engage in some

on-the-ground discovery, the following article came to light:

http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NE/miscMe01.htm#111632

Since it was found by reading through old newspaper microfilms,

you could have made the discovery just as easily as any of

the rest of us.

The article is not an admission of guilt by Oliver Cowdery --

but it is primary historical documentation of testimony from

1832 -- something that Cowdery once referred to elsewhere.

As I've said, over and over again, such study will not change

a Mormon into an atheist or an apostate -- but it will help

open his mind to new possibilities.

Let's look at your significant discovery more closely.

In order to put the public on their guard against these impostors, we publish the following extract from a letter written by a gentleman in Windsor, Broome Co. N. Y. to his friend in Boston, dated Aug. 30, 1832. We copy it from the Boston Christian Herald.

"This was an extract from a letter from an unnamed individual to another unnamed person. We don't have the actual letter but this was faithfully copied from another newspaper."

Dale, are you serious? But it gets worse.

Mr. Devenport said he had lately received a letter from William Youmans widow'

So this letter from an unknown individual printed in another newspaper quotes a letter from Mr. Devenport that he has received a letter from somebody's widow......

Dale, is this a joke?

But let's move on.

who went out with the Mormons, and had since left them and got married, stating that a Mr. Rigdon, or a name that sounded like it, their principal preacher under Smith, said lately that the Mormon religion was not true, and in consequence had been silenced by Smith.

So, this extract from a letter is from an unknown individual to another unknown person copied from a newspaper quoting a letter from someone who quotes a lady who had left the church. This woman claims that Rigdon (she thinks that is the name) told somebody that the Mormon religion is not true. She does not identify her source, but we can be assured it is very reliable.

I am speechless. This is a sign of desperation that you can find such a paucity of evidence for your Spalding/Rigdon theory that you stoop to purvey such nonsense.

This is a fifth-hand account of an exmormon widow recounting backyard gossip which made its way into a newspaper. And you wonder why nobody else made this discovery.

[Uncle Dale]

...

I am speechless.

...

I take that as a sign that you will not be conducting

any research into Sidney Rigdon's actions and state of mind

in 1832 --- after he called for that razor with which to

slit Joseph Smith's throat?

Perhaps you're right --- best to keep that sort of stuff

uninspected and not spoken of among the Saints.

UD

[Uncle Dale]

...

But absence of evidence...

That is why we need to better account for Smith's activities in 1826.

If Josiah Stowell's relatives were the

ones who kept bringing charges against Smith,

it would be helpful to identify them and locate

where they were residing between 1826 and 1830.

If Smith's lawyer was wrong, about Joseph leaving

the Colesville area after the 1826 hearing, then

other statements made by that lawyer in historical

reporting perhaps need to be reviewed.

I would think that the LDS Church could spare a

couple of thousand dollars, to track down evidence

of Smith's whereabouts in 1826. Other than some

looking by Larry Porter, I don't think anybody has

even attempted to research that period and fill in

the blanks in Smith's chronology.

This shouldn't be the task of anti-Mormons -- the LDS

themselves ought to summon up enough interest to go

and comb through the preserved materials throughout

the Colesville-Harmony region.

But -- perhaps expenses at City Creek have drained the

cash accounts, for such study of the Prophet's past.

UD

[Glenn101]

That is why we need to better account for Smith's activities in 1826.

If Josiah Stowell's relatives were the

ones who kept bringing charges against Smith,

it would be helpful to identify them and locate

where they were residing between 1826 and 1830.

If Smith's lawyer was wrong, about Joseph leaving

the Colesville area after the 1826 hearing, then

other statements made by that lawyer in historical

reporting perhaps need to be reviewed.

I would think that the LDS Church could spare a

couple of thousand dollars, to track down evidence

of Smith's whereabouts in 1826. Other than some

looking by Larry Porter, I don't think anybody has

even attempted to research that period and fill in

the blanks in Smith's chronology.

This shouldn't be the task of anti-Mormons -- the LDS

themselves ought to summon up enough interest to go

and comb through the preserved materials throughout

the Colesville-Harmony region.

But -- perhaps expenses at City Creek have drained the

cash accounts, for such study of the Prophet's past.

UD

I don't know why the LDS Church should put out any money for such an arcane exercise. The leadership and 99% of the membership are perfectly satisfied as things stand. It is up to those who think or wish for a smoking gun to follow up those vaporous trails.

Glenn

[Uncle Dale]

I don't know why the LDS Church should put out any money for such an arcane exercise.

...

I recall an RLDS elder once telling me the same thing, in response

to my suggesting that our church expend a small sum in order to

compile photocopies of all the sources documenting Smith's polygamy.

His answer was an abrupt one:

"We already know that Brigham Young invented polygamy and that

Joseph never had anything to do with it. Either you have a testimony

that this Church is true; or you do not. And you, Brother Broadhurst,

need to strengthen your testimony -- and stay away from Gentile lies."

A fair summary of a response I grew used to hearing. Then, one day,

the Church issued a new, two-volume history -- expensively printed,

(and still ignoring almost entirely the subject of Smith's polygamy).

The more it changes, the more it stays the same.

UD

[Glenn101]

I recall an RLDS elder once telling me the same thing, in response

to my suggesting that our church expend a small sum in order to

compile photocopies of all the sources documenting Smith's polygamy.

His answer was an abrupt one:

"We already know that Brigham Young invented polygamy and that

Joseph never had anything to do with it. Either you have a testimony

that this Church is true; or you do not. And you, Brother Broadhurst,

need to strengthen your testimony -- and stay away from Gentile lies."

A fair summary of a response I grew used to hearing. Then, one day,

the Church issued a new, two-volume history -- expensively printed,

(and still ignoring almost entirely the subject of Smith's polygamy).

The more it changes, the more it stays the same.

UD

The scenarios are a bit different. Joseph's polygamy has been the documented often although not very well at times. It was something that the RLDS church refused to believe.

A pre-1830 connection between Sidney Rigdon and Joseph Smith has not been documented. It has been theorized and fantasized but not documented. A trip to Ohio in the middle part of 1826 by Joseph makes little sense. The records, scanty though they be, indicate a Joseph working (and courting) during that period of time. If you recall, Joseph was working to help the family come up with the final payment on the farm they were buying in Manchester and a several month hiatus in Ohio, unless there was the promise of a job there, would not have been in character for Joseph.

None of those reasons prove that Joseph did not go to Ohio between March and September, but renders the probability rather remote, which is my mindset unless some convincing evidence can be produced that leads elsewhere.

Glenn

[Uncle Dale]

The scenarios are a bit different. Joseph's polygamy has been the documented often although not very well at times. It was something that the RLDS church refused to believe.

A pre-1830 connection between Sidney Rigdon and Joseph Smith has not been documented. It has been theorized and fantasized but not documented. A trip to Ohio in the middle part of 1826 by Joseph makes little sense. The records, scanty though they be, indicate a Joseph working (and courting) during that period of time. If you recall, Joseph was working to help the family come up with the final payment on the farm they were buying in Manchester and a several month hiatus in Ohio, unless there was the promise of a job there, would not have been in character for Joseph.

None of those reasons prove that Joseph did not go to Ohio between March and September, but renders the probability rather remote, which is my mindset unless some convincing evidence can be produced that leads elsewhere.

Glenn

Yeah -- maybe you're right.

But it's my hobby. Tho' these days I spend more time gardening

than I do reviewing scriptural and historical stuff. Maybe

that's because I have better luck in getting folks to sample

my home-grown pineapples, than my home-grown web-pages.

UD

[why me]

Yeah -- maybe you're right.

But it's my hobby. Tho' these days I spend more time gardening

than I do reviewing scriptural and historical stuff. Maybe

that's because I have better luck in getting folks to sample

my home-grown pineapples, than my home-grown web-pages.

UD

It would be wonderful to eat a pineapple with you Uncle Dale. And if you could throw in some hot dogs and burgers, that would be great too. Along with some spicy brown mustard, onions, tomatoes and a couple of pickles. And of course diet caffeine free coke.

I think that the problem with all this is the fact that most people are that interested. If a smoking gun was out there many people believe that it would have been found already. I don't think that people want to chase rainbows unless they can be almost sure that the pot of gold is actually there.

[Uncle Dale]

...

it would have been found already.

...

I'm sure that the Scientologists would say, that if any

evidence against the existence of Lord Xenu could be

produced, we'd have seen it by now -- so there's no use

in looking into the controversy.

How many centuries passed, before it was finally documented

(even to the satisfaction of the Jesuits) that the "Donation

of Constantine" was not a true and Divine Revelation?

Imagine going up to a general of the Papal States in earlier

times, saying "I'm going to research the legal foundation of

the Church's temporal power -- I think it may be a forgery!"

Suppose that RCC official would have blessed such an investigation?

UD