Jesus said:

[zerinus]

We don't know if the man's father had died, only that was what he was using as an excuse. Why was he even there if his father had just died?

I think we will have to assume that his dad had indeed died. He was evidently a true disciple. Somebody must have brought word for him that his dad had died, and he asked Jesus' permission if he could leave Him for a time to attend his dad's funeral. I think there is probably a lesson in that for us too. For example, which is more important, to attend your relative's funeral, or be honest and truthful in your conversations? I think the latter is more important in the eternal scheme of things.

Also, what would have a more long term and serious effct, missing a funeral or quitting work with family to support to follow Jesus?

Well, evidently he felt that leaving the side of Jesus to attend his dad's funeral for a few days wouldn't do his spirituality any harm. Jesus must have had other ideas.

[LeSellers]

Matthew 8

:

21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

How could Jesus have been so insensitive and unkind? What do you think about what He said?

This passage came to mind. I don't know exactly why, but it seems apropos.

1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.

2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

3 Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

4 And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said unto them, Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp. 5 So they went near, and carried them in their coats out of the camp; as Moses had said.

6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD hath kindled. 7 And ye shall not go out from the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: for the anointing oil of the LORD is upon you. And they did according to the word of Moses.

8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, 9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: 10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; 11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

Enjoy,

Lehi

[zerinus]

I already explained why. Because Jesus said those words to him out of love for him and to enable him to gain something of utmost importance.

Well, your answer still isn't very clear to me. What harm could it do to him to attend his father's funeral for a few days and then return to Jesus? That would be a bit like asking your bishop to excuse you from attending General Conference (once in your lifetime) to attend your father's funeral, and the bishop refusing! I think your would conclude that that bishop was a bit overzealous, to put it mildly.

[RubyHunter]

Thanks. But couldn't He have been a bit more sensitive to the emotional needs of a disciple whose dad had just kicked the bucket?

I haven't read the rest of the thread as of yet, but I have the following idea.

What if the father in law wasn't yet saved? Spiritually, he was dead. This allows Christ to say that the other spiritually dead folk could do the work while the son who was saved could go work to bring about the eternal life of others.

Seems to make sense to ME at least.

[zerinus]

This passage came to mind. I don't know exactly why, but it seems apropos.

Enjoy,

Lehi

I can see a very remote connection between these two passages of scripture; but not enough to ties them up too strongly.

[David T]

Its common for missionaries who have deaths in the family to remain in the field proclaiming the Gospel instead of going home fur the family funeral. In fact, this is what is generally encouraged.

[bluebell]

Well, your answer still isn't very clear to me. What harm could it do to him to attend his father's funeral for a few days and then return to Jesus? That would be a bit like asking your bishop to excuse you from attending General Conference (once in your lifetime) to attend your father's funeral, and the bishop refusing! I think your would conclude that that bishop was a bit overzealous, to put it mildly.

I think we can both agree though that a bishop isn't Jesus and that attending general conference isn't equivilent to being a disciple of Christ during his mortal ministry.

Obviously Jesus felt it would be a detriment to the man to first go and bury his father and that it was more important to immediately follow Him. We know that Jesus loved Him (it's a given). Beyond that, we don't know too much else.

[LeSellers]

Its common for missionaries who have deaths in the family to remain in the field proclaiming the Gospel instead of going home fur the family funeral. In fact, this is what is generally encouraged.

That's what happened in my case. I stayed. A lot of people were surprised. I didn't understand their confusion.

Lehi

[3DOP]

Matthew 8

:

21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

How could Jesus have been so insensitive and unkind? What do you think about what He said?

Zerinus, you can't think that Jesus (the One who said he who sees Me sees the Father) is unkind or insensitive? What can you be asking? Whatever it means, it can't mean that He who agonized in the garden, was scourged at the pillar, wore a crown of thorns, and walked the road to Calvary for you is unkind or insensitive. I would say that to you if I was LDS. If I thought Jesus was insensitive and unkind in this instance, I could never believe that the same man died for me on the Cross. I have a really full plate this week. But if by Thursday, no one has satisfactorily explained this passage, I will hope to try.

I am sure you are looking for an answer. Be assured, there is one. I don't even know what I'll say yet. I just know that Jesus is good, that He loves us, and there is an answer.

3DOP

[zerinus]

Zerinus, you can't think that Jesus (the One who said he who sees Me sees the Father) is unkind or insensitive? What can you be asking? Whatever it means, it can't mean that He who agonized in the garden, was scourged at the pillar, wore a crown of thorns, and walked the road to Calvary for you is unkind or insensitive. I would say that to you if I was LDS. If I thought Jesus was insensitive and unkind in this instance, I could never believe that the same man died for me on the Cross. I have a really full plate this week. But if by Thursday, no one has satisfactorily explained this passage, I will hope to try.

I am sure you are looking for an answer. Be assured, there is one. I don't even know what I'll say yet. I just know that Jesus is good, that He loves us, and there is an answer.

3DOP

Thank you for your comments. I agree with what you have said. I wasn

[Deborah]

In the modern version of "Last of the Mohicans" there is a scene where Hawkeye and company come upon the slaughtered family Hawkeye and his friends had recently visited. The British with him wanted to stop and bury the dead, but Hawkeye sternly told them not to touch them or anything else and move on. The British were shocked at his coldness and later Cora asked him how he could be so unfeeling. Hawkeye explained that these people close friends but any Indians in the area would have known they had been there if they moved the bodies and they would have followed them and likewise slaughtered them. He was letting the dead bury the dead while thinking of the living in his care

We read of Lot leaving Sodom and Gomorah and the warning not to look back, and we know of Lot's wife looking back. Of course there is more to the story than just turning and looking. But the point is sometimes in looking back we are turning from that which should be of greatest importance.

Christ, who overcame death, understood better than anyone how fragile this life is and yet how permanent Life is. There was likely more to the story than just attending a funeral and like Lot's wife there was likely the longing to go back and not return to what was of greatest importance.

[David T]

That shows good insight. It is a good connection. I suppose there may have been another person who brought another excuse:

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I find your post to be insulting, abusive, and full of unsavory innuendo. I suggest that you do the decent thing, acknowledge your error, withdraw your comment, and apologize.

Ha, in what way. Please demonstrate this. You were rude and insentitve to Rob's situation.

[JDave]

There are lots of ways that one can be hypocritical. For example, if I offered you a condolence, but didn

[Vance]

Its common for missionaries who have deaths in the family to remain in the field proclaiming the Gospel instead of going home fur the family funeral. In fact, this is what is generally encouraged.

There are exceptions, so I wonder how "general" it really is.

A missionary from our ward returned home for the funeral for his brother. As I recall he was home for about a week, then returned to his field of labor.

Now, one could say that this was a special circumstance. With the untimely/unexpected death of his brother, he became the "patriarch" of the family as his mother was widowed.

For what it is worth.

Jesus' pronouncement may have been more individual specific than general. There rare/specific incidents where following the general rule is not the right thing to do.

[zerinus]

Do you feel that anyone has offered an insincere condolence here on the board recently?

I think I have already made my point. After that, I don't have much more to say, except to follow Jesus' advice and "let the dead bury their dead."

[David T]

I think I have already made my point.

In abundance.

[zerinus]

In abundance.

I doubt if you got the point though. Some people just never learn, do they.

[JDave]

I think I have already made my point. After that, I don't have much more to say, except to follow Jesus' advice and "let the dead bury their dead."

And your point is that making snide comments to someone of another religion displays your heartfelt feelings and is thus much more respectable and proper than other people offering their condolences to someone of another religion, and this because the condolences expressed must be insincere because one simply can't offer sincere condolences to someone with differing beliefs? And if anyone objects to your rude treatment of anyone of another religion, they are merely displaying their double hypocrisy?

If I am mistating your point, please be very explicit in correcting it rather than simply getting upset at me for mistating it.

P.S. Do you really object to all funerals?

[Deborah]

What harm could it do to him to attend his father's funeral for a few days and then return to Jesus?

I think you are missing the point of that passage and what everyone has been trying to say. The fact that it was Jesus saying this (and that's even assuming the translation is correct and we have the whole story) makes all the difference. I believe this was addressed to a specific person in a specific situation and for someone to generalize it to every situation is a little pedantic. Furthermore, to emphasize, it was Christ, who knows the heart of a man, who said this.

[zerinus]

I think you are missing the point of that passage and what everyone has been trying to say. The fact that it was Jesus saying this (and that's even assuming the translation is correct and we have the whole story) makes all the difference. I believe this was addressed to a specific person in a specific situation and for someone to generalize it to every situation is a little pedantic. Furthermore, to emphasize, it was Christ, who knows the heart of a man, who said this.

Well, Jesus didn't just make a statement about the disciple who had asked permission to attend His father's funeral; He also made a statement about his father, and the people who were burying him. I was just wondering if that characterization might be applicable to a few others too.

[zerinus]

P.S. Do you really object to all funerals?

Jesus only seemed to object to some of the people who were doing the burying.

[JDave]

Jesus only seemed to object to some of the people who were doing the burying.

You seem to be purposefully vague. Which people were objected to, the live ones? Should we literally get dead people to do the burying of the newly deceased? What does Jesus' advice to "let the dead bury their dead" mean to you and how would you apply it if one of your family members were to die?

I am taking your lack of comment on my statement summarizing the point of this thread as a tacit agreement. Please clarify if my statement was in error or if it correctly articulated the point you were making.

[mrmendoza]

I think we will have to assume that his dad had indeed died. He was evidently a true disciple. Somebody must have brought word for him that his dad had died, and he asked Jesus' permission if he could leave Him for a time to attend his dad's funeral. I think there is probably a lesson in that for us too. For example, which is more important, to attend your relative's funeral, or be honest and truthful in your conversations? I think the latter is more important in the eternal scheme of things.

Well, evidently he felt that leaving the side of Jesus to attend his dad's funeral for a few days wouldn't do his spirituality any harm. Jesus must have had other ideas.

I can't say where I read this but my understanding of this was that it was not that the disciples father had died, but that there was a rather pernicious custom in those days to get out of a commitment by saying that you were willing to do something but not until someone died. In other words his dad had not yet died, might not have even been sick, but he didn't really want to go anywhere, at least while his parents were still living!

As I said, I can't remember where I read that, but maybe someone else has heard of that. The point of what I'm saying is that Jesus was not really being unsensitive about anything, but rather was chiding the man for his hesitency to go forward!

Mike

[LeSellers]

there was a rather pernicious custom in those days to get out of a commitment by saying that you were willing to do something but not until someone died. In other words his dad had not yet died, might not have even been sick, but he didn't really want to go anywhere, at least while his parents were still living!

Fits, in a fun house mirror sort of way, with the idea of "Corban".

Lehi