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1838 executive order to exterminate Mormons!


Ceeboo

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From another thread (as to not derail it)

Governor Boggs and the signed executive order to exterminate Mormons.

Did the US Government actually take action with this order or was it just a threat?

Did they kill folks? (Woman, children?)

Why did it take so long to rescind this order?

What, if anything, did Van Buren do, or say about this?

Was there NO "USA Leaders" who were opposed to this official order?

Anything else you could share to help folks like me (slightly ignorant)gain some historical knowledge and perspective?

Thanks and peace,

Ceeboo

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From another thread (as to not derail it)

Governor Boggs and the signed executive order to exterminate Mormons.

Did the US Government actually take action with this order or was it just a threat?

Did they kill folks? (Woman, children?)

Why did it take so long to rescind this order?

What, if anything, did Van Buren do, or say about this?

Was there NO "USA Leaders" who were opposed to this official order?

Anything else you could share to help folks like me (slightly ignorant)gain some historical knowledge and perspective?

Thanks and peace,

Ceeboo

I don't know much detail about the "Extermination Order" either Ceeboo.

Not to derail your thread, I wanted to ask another on topic question.

How many were killed, on either side, during this period due to the order?

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I don't know much detail about the "Extermination Order" either Ceeboo.

Not to derail your thread, I wanted to ask another on topic question.

How many were killed, on either side, during this period due to the order?

Great addition Mudcat (Thanks for adding it)

Peace,

Ceeboo

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The U.S. Government was asked later to intervene via a series of petitions, including a visit by JSJr to President Van Buren. Van Buren pointed out the Feds' toothlessness in intervening under AnteBellum constitutional theory. Van Buren is reported as saying, "Your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you."

As for the "Extermination Order," nobody stuck around to see if the State Militia would carry out the order if they failed to vacate. The Second Missouri Exodus at bayonet point in 1838-39 is a very sad tale indeed, with lots of lives lost, JSJr and a few associates in jail (whence they were later allowed to escape as the trumped-up charges against him became an embarrassment). Brigham Young led this exodus across Missouri to the Mississippi, and thence across the river to Illinois, where kind folks took them in. They ended up settling a bit North of their crossing, building Nauvoo into the largest or second largest city in Illinois.

Scholars today, even a few Mormon scholars, have tried to rehabilitate Boggs.

I ain't buying what they're selling.

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Sydney Rigdon made a similar statement for Mormons on July 4th prior to Boggs making his executive order need to be at least considered part of Governor Boggs decision.

Due to the poor communications after the Missouri militia encounter the Mormon Danites and he was told his militia was clobbered by the Mormons should be a factor in his poor decision.

Look up Hahn's Mill in regards to if Mormon blood was shed. One has to keep in mind with the timing of this in regards to when the executive order was given since it was something like 2 days after the order. The corollary to MMM and if BY had time to submit the order is interesting in comparison.

There is no good reason why the executive order was never reversed besides the fact it was a state order and the federal government preferred to not be involved.

Food for thought. There's two sides to the executive order issue.

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The U.S. Government was asked later to intervene via a series of petitions, including a visit by JSJr to President Van Buren. Van Buren pointed out the Feds' toothlessness in intervening under AnteBellum constitutional theory. Van Buren is reported as saying, "Your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you."

As for the "Extermination Order," nobody stuck around to see if the State Militia would carry out the order if they failed to vacate. The Second Missouri Exodus at bayonet point in 1838-39 is a very sad tale indeed, with lots of lives lost, JSJr and a few associates in jail (whence they were later allowed to escape as the trumped-up charges against him became an embarrassment). Brigham Young led this exodus across Missouri to the Mississippi, and thence across the river to Illinois, where kind folks took them in. They ended up settling a bit North of their crossing, building Nauvoo into the largest or second largest city in Illinois.

Scholars today, even a few Mormon scholars, have tried to rehabilitate Boggs.

I ain't buying what they're selling.

Hi USU,

Thanks for sharing!

In regard to the evacuation, what happened to all the Mormon owned properties that were obviously left behind?

Who were these kind folks in Illinois that took them in? Strangers (?) who simply offered a loving hand?

Peace,

Ceeboo

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Sydney Rigdon made a similar statement for Mormons on July 4th prior to Boggs making his executive order need to be at least considered part of Governor Boggs decision.

Rigdon's actual words, as history has recorded them:

But from this day and this hour we will suffer it no more. We take God and all the holy angels to witness, this day, that we warn all men, in the name of Jesus Christ to come on us no more for ever, for from this hour we will bear it no more; our rights shall no more be trampled on with impunity; the man, or the set of men who attempt it, do it at the expense of their lives. And that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us, for we will carry the seat of war to their own houses and their own families, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed. Remember it then, all men. We will never be the aggressors, we will infringe on the rights of no people, but shall stand for our own until death

Terrible thing, that . . . pledging to defend one's self against predation and mobs.

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Rigdon's actual words, as history has recorded them:

Terrible thing, that . . . pledging to defend one's self against predation and mobs.

it shall be between us and them a war of extermination
Thanks for the quote, I just find it interesting that the war of words is documented in history to have been started by Mormon leaders way before Governor Bogg's statements
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Thanks for the quote, I just find it interesting that the war of words is documented in history to have been started by Mormon leaders way before Governor Bogg's statements

And yet it was the state government that actually had the ability to carry out such an extermination. Unprecedented action on Boggs' part.

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Terrible thing, that . . . pledging to defend one's self against predation and mobs.

By threatening to exterminate everyone, which would include innocent men, women and children.

Yeah, that sounds pretty terrible to me. Especially if the "predation" and "mobs" that Rigdon referred to included the Missouri state militia acting on lawful orders.

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And yet it was the state government that actually had the ability to carry out such an extermination. Unprecedented action on Boggs' part.

You have a governor who received poor field reports that his militia was clobbered. Unprecedented decision absolutely. Is it totally unreasonable a rash decision is made by him if he felt he lost his militia?

In retrospect, the choice not to reverse the executive order in short order does not bode well for Boggs and is inexcusable.

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By threatening to exterminate everyone, which would include innocent men, women and children.

Yeah, that sounds pretty terrible to me. Especially if the "predation" and "mobs" that Rigdon referred to included the Missouri state militia acting on lawful orders.

Translation: Jaybear thinks the Mormons got what they deserved.

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In regard to the evacuation, what happened to all the Mormon owned properties that were obviously left behind?

Here is a library of persons who petitioned for redress . . . I don't find my 2 Nauvoo G-G-Grandfathers among them, but both were "dis-seised" of their homes and farms: http://earlylds.com/showsource.php?sourceID=S40&tree=Earlylds&foffset=&ioffset=50

Not much was recovered.

Who were these kind folks in Illinois that took them in? Strangers (?) who simply offered a loving hand?

The folks in Quincy, Illinois, are the benefactors, who took in the refugees.

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By threatening to exterminate everyone, which would include innocent men, women and children.

Yeah, that sounds pretty terrible to me. Especially if the "predation" and "mobs" that Rigdon referred to included the Missouri state militia acting on lawful orders.

Military personnel are quite **** about record keeping about orders: buttcovering goes wayyyyyyy back.

Here you go, JB: you've asserted that mob action in Missouri and predations against Mormons prior to Rigdon's 2 speeches were by lawful militiamen acting under lawful orders.

C

F

R

[Fixed the time period to which the CFR applies]

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Translation: I have no rational basis to criticize what Jaybear actually said.

Then explain yourself. "Acting on lawful orders?" Do you really think that such "lawful orders" weren't used as a pretext for abuse by the militia? Do you really think there wasn't a hint of prejudice in the issuance of said orders?

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In regard to the evacuation, what happened to all the Mormon owned properties that were obviously left behind?

A number of years ago, I attended a lecture on the subject. The lecturer claimed that much of the property ended up in the possession of the mob leaders and other politicians. I cannot locate my notes, so I cannot cite any of his documentation.

Who were these kind folks in Illinois that took them in? Strangers (?) who simply offered a loving hand?

They were a bunch of Ceeboos and Mudcats.

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Translation: Jaybear thinks the Mormons got what they deserved.

Translation: I have no rational basis to criticize what Jaybear actually said.

Question: What do you call a brunette inbetween two blondes? Answer: A translator :P

Question: What do you call a blonde inbetween two brunettes? Answer: A mental block ;)

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WOW!!!!

This is one of the more difficult/disturbing/uncomfortable threads I have read.

I find myself in a "fog" with very little to type!

Beyond Sad

Peace,

Ceeboo

It is indeed. You're seeing the classic antiMo attack and typical Mo response.

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Here you go, JB: you've asserted that mob action in Missouri and predations against Mormons were by lawful militiamen acting under lawful orders.

No I didn't. I asserted that prospectively the two can easily be conflated. Bear in mind Rigdon was speaking prospectively.

Tribe: Then explain yourself. "Acting on lawful orders?" Do you really think that such "lawful orders" weren't used as a pretext for abuse by the militia? Do you really think there wasn't a hint of prejudice in the issuance of said orders?

Irrelevant. The point was that Rigdon's statements were threatening and inflamatory, and caused the nonMormon neighbors great concern that the violence would escalate. If you can't see that, then we have no baseline in which we can have a meaningful discussion.

But please don't insult me, by suggesting that I would think or say that Mormons deserved it.

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Irrelevant. The point was that Rigdon's statements were threatening and inflamatory, and caused the nonMormon neighbors great concern that the violence would escalate. If you can't see that, then we have no baseline in which we can have a meaningful discussion.

If you are dismissive about all of the relevant facts, then you are right, we can have no meaningful discussion.

Oh, and I've never said anything about Sidney Rigdon's comments not being inflammatory. They were ill-timed and ill-advised.

But please don't insult me, by suggesting that I would think or say that Mormons deserved it.

Then don't say things that create that impression.

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