Hyrum Andrus

[DJSuperBrandt]

Let me start by saying thank you to Rockslider for getting these lectures out there. I think we can find truth in all things.

Re: Paul's Mormon Stories interviews...he came off very angry, and that his way of viewing things was the only way to view things. Not being able to admit any fault that the way he handled things really turned me off. I can listen to all sides of an argument, but when it becomes spiteful, I turn off.

I'm not sure what went down with Hyrum. As a matter of fact, all I knew was that he wrote a lot of books on Joseph Smith and used to be a professor at BYU. Call me gullible, but when I've listened to the lectures while out walking or driving to work, it sounds like 1.) He uses the scriptures for his basis in thinking (this was apparent to me during his discussion of Christ's blood during Gethsemane) and 2.) Much of it was his own theorizing.

I think that's OK. I think we should encourage that. But to what point? Should we take Hyrum's word as law? I don't think he would want that (if the stories you say about him are true, Rockslider). As a matter of fact, the entire theme of his addresses (at least the Book of Mormon ones) seems to be trying to get us on the course of developing this relationship with deity.

Then again, I might be way off.

[David T]

Let me start by saying thank you to Rockslider for getting these lectures out there. I think we can find truth in all things.

Call me gullible, but when I've listened to the lectures while out walking or driving to work, it sounds like 1.) He uses the scriptures for his basis in thinking (this was apparent to me during his discussion of Christ's blood during Gethsemane) and 2.) Much of it was his own theorizing.

I think that's OK. I think we should encourage that. But to what point? Should we take Hyrum's word as law? I don't think he would want that (if the stories you say about him are true, Rockslider). As a matter of fact, the entire theme of his addresses (at least the Book of Mormon ones) seems to be trying to get us on the course of developing this relationship with deity.

Then again, I might be way off.

DJ, those are the same feelings I had while listening.

[MDalby]

Let me start by saying thank you to Rockslider for getting these lectures out there. I think we can find truth in all things.

Re: Paul's Mormon Stories interviews...he came off very angry, and that his way of viewing things was the only way to view things. Not being able to admit any fault that the way he handled things really turned me off. I can listen to all sides of an argument, but when it becomes spiteful, I turn off.

I'm not sure what went down with Hyrum. As a matter of fact, all I knew was that he wrote a lot of books on Joseph Smith and used to be a professor at BYU. Call me gullible, but when I've listened to the lectures while out walking or driving to work, it sounds like 1.) He uses the scriptures for his basis in thinking (this was apparent to me during his discussion of Christ's blood during Gethsemane) and 2.) Much of it was his own theorizing.

I think that's OK. I think we should encourage that. But to what point? Should we take Hyrum's word as law? I don't think he would want that (if the stories you say about him are true, Rockslider). As a matter of fact, the entire theme of his addresses (at least the Book of Mormon ones) seems to be trying to get us on the course of developing this relationship with deity.

Then again, I might be way off.

Just to backup your post. I am paraphrasing because it was many years ago... I heard Truman Madsen say that Hyrum thinks his writings are foundational documents and Trumen said, "Hyrum will find out that his writings aren't as foundational as he thinks."

MD

[DJSuperBrandt]

Just to backup your post. I am paraphrasing because it was many years ago... I heard Truman Madsen say that Hyrum thinks his writings are foundational documents and Trumen said, "Hyrum will find out that his writings aren't as foundational as he thinks."

MD

Which begs the question...I don't know Hyrum, and I don't know much of his teachings (aside from "They Knew the Prophet" and these lectures)...

Did Hyrum have a fundamental shift in thinking at some point that would make Truman say something like that? And when would this have been said? Which, if Hyrum felt that way, could explain the blunt confrontation that Rockslider eluded to with McConkie.

[MDalby]

Any virtue taken to an extreme can become a vice. Hyrum is passionate regarding what he believes. Hyrum was warned and the library firesides was not a wise move. I don't know all the facts and I am sure there is more to the story then I know so I probably shouldn't say anything more.

[rockslider]

I think that's OK. I think we should encourage that. But to what point? Should we take Hyrum's word as law? I don't think he would want that (if the stories you say about him are true, Rockslider). As a matter of fact, the entire theme of his addresses (at least the Book of Mormon ones) seems to be trying to get us on the course of developing this relationship with deity.

Then again, I might be way off.

No we should not take Hyrum

[MDalby]

MD, don

[David T]

Obtaining all the knowledge there is to know about the Gospel isn't what leads one to qualifying for the Second Anointing and/or having their calling and election made sure.

One needs to get out of the books and deep thoughts and into the world helping others, applying the practical elements of what are in the scriptures and the words of the living apostles and prophets, and showing to the Lord that one is willing to emulate the Savior in all things, in all circumstances, and heed the council of Him and His Prophets, even when it does not appear logical to do so.

If one is not Obedient in all things, willing to Sacrifice, have Christ's Gospel Law as given in the Sermon on the Mount be an essential part of their being, willing to consecrate all they have to build up the Kingdom of God, and overcoming lust in their heart and mind, they're not ready yet for the Higher Blessings.

The Gospel - and Temple - is something we apply, and not just learn by reading and studying and re-visiting. We must do. If we do not do, we're just going to be standing still, hoping for something to happen that will never happen.

There is no essential doctrine that is necessary for one's exaltation or even calling and election in this life that is not made available through the proper channels of the Church, and associated personal revelation as a companion.

The Doctrine and Covenants teaches that disobedience leads to a removal of light and truth, and sends you backwards in one's progression. It becomes a regression.

[rockslider]

Loap recently made a comment and providing a link that also greatly interested me.

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/49795-great-relief-for-the-ark-steadiers/page__view__findpost__p__1208863632

In this he refers to

[rockslider]

nackhadlow,

I agree. In my case I got focused on doctrine, temple symbols/mysteries and forgot about Christ.

[David T]

nackhadlow,

I agree. In my case I got focused on doctrine, temple symbols/mysteries and forgot about Christ.

Hey, I was on the road to getting caught up in Biblical Scholarship alone, separated from trying to apply it in my life. While I was learning a lot, what I was learning had no relevance to my or my family's salvation. With that understanding in mind, I re-evaluated my study methods, and while I still study secular scholarship, I designate a larger portion of my studies to personal application of the scriptures, and trying to apply the counsel of the living apostles and prophet. Within the week, I felt much more in tune with the spirit.

It was a matter of good, better, and best. We don't need to abandon our intellectual pursuits - just set them in their proper place, behind actively striving to live a Christ-like life, and humility. And repentance.

[MDalby]

Obtaining all the knowledge there is to know about the Gospel isn't what leads one to qualifying for the Second Anointing and/or having their calling and election made sure.

One needs to get out of the books and deep thoughts and into the world helping others, applying the practical elements of what are in the scriptures and the words of the living apostles and prophets, and showing to the Lord that one is willing to emulate the Savior in all things, in all circumstances, and heed the council of Him and His Prophets, even when it does not appear logical to do so.

If one is not Obedient in all things, willing to Sacrifice, have Christ's Gospel Law as given in the Sermon on the Mount be an essential part of their being, willing to consecrate all they have to build up the Kingdom of God, and overcoming lust in their heart and mind, they're not ready yet for the Higher Blessings.

The Gospel - and Temple - is something we apply, and not just learn by reading and studying and re-visiting. We must do. If we do not do, we're just going to be standing still, hoping for something to happen that will never happen.

There is no essential doctrine that is necessary for one's exaltation or even calling and election in this life that is not made available through the proper channels of the Church, and associated personal revelation as a companion.

The Doctrine and Covenants teaches that disobedience leads to a removal of light and truth, and sends you backwards in one's progression. It becomes a regression.

This is true gospel verity--that everyone in the Church who is on the straight and narrow path, who is striving and struggling and desiring to do what is right, though is far from perfect in this life; if he passes out of this life while he's on the straight and narrow, he's going to go on to eternal reward in his Father's kingdom. We don't need to get a complex or get a feeling that you have to be perfect to be saved. You don't. There's only been one perfect person, and that's the Lord Jesus, but in order to be saved in the Kingdom of God and in order to pass the test of mortality, what you have to do is get on the straight and narrow path--thus charting a course leading to eternal life--and then, being on that path, pass out of this life in full fellowship. I'm not saying that you don't have to keep the commandments. I'm saying you don't have to be perfect to be saved. If you did, no one would be saved. The way it operates is this you get on the path that's named the "straight and narrow." You do it by entering the gate of repentance and baptism. The straight and narrow path leads from the gate of repentance and baptism, a very great distance, to a reward that's called eternal life. If you're on that path and pressing forward, and you die, you'll never get off the path. There is no such thing as falling off the straight and narrow path in the life to come, and the reason is that this life is the time that is given to men to prepare for eternity. Now is the time and the day of your salvation, so if you're working zealously in this life--though you haven't fully overcome the world and you haven't done all you hoped you might do--you're still going to be saved. You don't have to do what Jacob said, "Go beyond the mark." You don't have to live a life that's truer than true. You don't have to have an excessive zeal that becomes fanatical and becomes unbalancing. What you have to do is stay in the mainstream of the Church and live as upright and decent people live in the Church--keeping the commandments, paying your tithing, serving in the organizations of the Church, loving the Lord, staying on the straight and narrow path. If you're on that path when death comes--because this is the time and the day appointed, this the probationary estate--you'll never fall off from it, and, for all practical purposes, your calling and election is made sure. Now, that isn't the definition of that term, but the end result will be the same.

(Elder Bruce R. McConkie, From an address delivered at the University of Utah Institute on January 10, 1982)

[rockslider]

This is true gospel verity-- ...

(Elder Bruce R. McConkie, From an address delivered at the University of Utah Institute on January 10, 1982)

Hehe,

Ahh, yes, the escalator theory. Maybe this is what Hyrum and BRM fought about. Hyrum mentions in his seminars that if one is to stand still (on the path) they will go backwards

[rockslider]

It is done.

I stopped by a humble home in Alpine Utah this morning and gave Hyrum a note and a DVD with all of the seminars on it (barely fit). I had been planning on dropping it off next Sunday, but thought I would go and see if I could get the one missing tape.

Hyrum is going in this Friday for a hip replacement; he

[DJSuperBrandt]

It is done.

I stopped by a humble home in Alpine Utah this morning and gave Hyrum a note and a DVD with all of the seminars on it (barely fit). I had been planning on dropping it off next Sunday, but thought I would go and see if I could get the one missing tape.

Hyrum is going in this Friday for a hip replacement; he

[Nemesis]

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