Hyrum Andrus

[David T]

I'm not familiar with the 'Pederson Letter'. I did a search, and the only reference I found to it was a link to your own entry on the PostMormon.org Scrapbook.

[rockslider]

When I first posted here, I had some conversation with a Mod about posting it for posterity's sake. But much like their concern about these tapes, the same was true with the letter (which I have a copy of). At the time I contacted Hersel and arranged to meet him. I was going to ask him for permission to submit it to the net somewhere. He was a bit concerned on the phone that anyone still had a copy and mentioned he had worked hard to destroy all references to it.

I asked him once - we were standing in the Sealing waiting room of the Timpanogos Temple - was the letter real or an urban legend? His response --- "That letter has been my Hell".

[Calm]

When I first posted here, I had some conversation with a Mod about posting it for posterity's sake. But much like their concern about these tapes, the same was true with the letter (which I have a copy of). At the time I contacted Hersel

"Hersel" or "Herschel"

[rockslider]

"Hersel" or "Herschel"

I'm sorry, Herschel Pederson

[Calm]

I'm sorry, Herschel Pederson

You might be interested in this: http://heraldextra.com/lifestyles/article_3a20b039-2f4b-5016-9e71-45c12e559ece.html

[rockslider]

You might be interested in this: http://heraldextra.c...c12e559ece.html

Thank you for that, yes I'm interested.

[Nevo]

I'll make them available, for free to anyone interested.

Thanks for doing this, rockslider. I downloaded the ISOs for the Book of Mormon seminar and the Pearl of Great Price seminar. They turned out great. I am looking forward to listening to them. I haven't had much exposure to Hyrum Andrus. I only have one book by him, his "doctrinal commentary" on the Pearl of Great Price, and I have to confess I haven't read much of it. I tend to prefer in-depth verse-by-verse exegesis to free-form doctrinal exposition, but maybe these lectures will inspire me to give it another look. Paul Toscano's discussion of Andrus on the Mormon Stories podcast a couple of years ago was certainly intriguing.

[rockslider]

Thanks for doing this, rockslider. I downloaded the ISOs for the Book of Mormon seminar and the Pearl of Great Price seminar. They turned out great. I am looking forward to listening to them. I haven't had much exposure to Hyrum Andrus. I only have one book by him, his "doctrinal commentary" on the Pearl of Great Price, and I have to confess I haven't read much of it. I tend to prefer in-depth verse-by-verse exegesis to free-form doctrinal exposition, but maybe these lectures will inspire me to give it another look. Paul Toscano's discussion of Andrus on the Mormon Stories podcast a couple of years ago was certainly intriguing.

Nevo, thank you for that link.

I took a break from the conversions and listened to the first two sessions with Paul. I will finish these later for sure. I wonder what ever happened to Ehat?

edit:

I got back to the pod cast.

This is the first interview that I've heard John do, where he debated with the interviewee. It seems apparent that John was uncomfortable with Paul's take. This surprised me.

I'm right on board with Paul. All of a sudden, the fly seems to make sense.

Wow, what an incredible couple of days!

Thanks again for that link.

[David T]

After listening to his discussion on the structure or organization of the Godhead (which is very similar to how I understood it), I made this chart. Does this seem to be an accurate representation of the ideas he presents?

The colored circles are the 'glory' or direct influence that emanates from the physical personages in the Godhead. The Spirit/Light of Christ is what envelopes the Creation, and all within it, and the Holy Ghost, working within Christ's light, testifies of it, and adds a bit of a concentrated 'boost' of it.

My reading of D&C 88 leads me to the idea that Priesthood is itself identified with the Light of Christ, but as conferred upon individuals it is focused or harnessed with direct access and specific degrees of authority granted to its use.

7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.

8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;

9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;

10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.

11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;

12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space

[MDalby]

In what form did they silence him? What was said?

The facts are not altogether accurate that have been mentioned on this site regarding Hyrum. I have debated whether or not to mention anything. The area that Hyrum was having issues is that he was pursuing teaching the physical kingdom of God and that Joseph was ordained a king etc.. I think it was the Joseph Smith and World Government work that was carried too far. He was later removed from teaching and assigned to the library and it was there that teaching continued in library firesides etc. There was also an incident where one of the BYU professors wives had a dream that the Provo Canyon dam would burst and she told Hyrum. He believed her and that the dream was authentic and contacted SLC to let them know. I think it was Elder Maxwell that was actually sent down to Provo and talked with Hyrum and I am sure they had a good discussion regarding the Lord's structure for receiving revelation.

Hyrum has also had some sort of falling out with Deseret Book. I think he bought back the rights for all of the other books so they cannot be distributed through Deseret Book.

I think in general Hyrum's works are pretty solid.

MD

[rockslider]

MDalby,

Thank you for this information. It seems consistent with some things I had not heard before the other day (Nevo's link to Paul).

I'd encourage anyone to listen to the whole of that podcast as well. The first two parts cover some of Paul's experience with Hyrum and mention the library etc.

However after listening to Paul's discussion of these things, it was pretty clear to me that Hyrum's problem with BRM was over his teachings of the nature of God.

Btw,

My experience with Hyrum was after all of this had gone down. He would not speak much about it, and so my skewed view was based on my love of his teachings.

I welcome, and encourage anyone here in the know to put it out here. I would like to know what went down.

[David T]

I think it was the Joseph Smith and World Government work that was carried too far.

Okay, this makes sense to me. He otherwise seems to fall very closely in line with JFS/McConkie understandings of scriptural history and theology - which has become more or less mainstream.

Although I can see McConkie having issues with elements of Andrus' teachings concerning the nature of the Godhood of Christ, and our relationship to Him. At least with McConkie's well known BYU address in mind, where McConkie says not to seek a personal relationship with Christ, or to worship Him.

[nosmelone]

Rockslider, thanks for these mp3's they are amazing especially the BOM talk 15 on the Holy Order so far that one is my favorite.

[rockslider]

alternate voices

if it was only for you to enjoy that one tape, it has been worth the effort.

It's been a very good experience for me to review these.

[MDalby]

MDalby,

I'd encourage anyone to listen to the whole of that podcast as well. The first two parts cover some of Paul's experience with Hyrum and mention the library etc.

Btw,

I am sorry. I tried to listen but I just can't. Can someone just summarize for me the interaction with Hyrum so I don't have to listen to all the drivel.

MD

[rockslider]

One man

[MDalby]

One man

[rockslider]

Do you really think what Paul is saying is treasure? I just looked at the video I didn't try to listen to the audio. I thought it was similar. Is the audio different than the video in content?

Do you agree with Paul's thoughts?

Note nackhadlow

[MDalby]

Note nackhadlow

[MDalby]

By the way... I have a blood clot in my leg and I have taken up walking to try to build the circulation and I have been listening to the Andrus MP3s. Thank you for the efforts.

MD

[MDalby]

The facts are not altogether accurate that have been mentioned on this site regarding Hyrum. I have debated whether or not to mention anything. The area that Hyrum was having issues is that he was pursuing teaching the physical kingdom of God and that Joseph was ordained a king etc.. I think it was the Joseph Smith and World Government work that was carried too far. He was later removed from teaching and assigned to the library and it was there that teaching continued in library firesides etc. There was also an incident where one of the BYU professors wives had a dream that the Provo Canyon dam would burst and she told Hyrum. He believed her and that the dream was authentic and contacted SLC to let them know. I think it was Elder Maxwell that was actually sent down to Provo and talked with Hyrum and I am sure they had a good discussion regarding the Lord's structure for receiving revelation.

Hyrum has also had some sort of falling out with Deseret Book. I think he bought back the rights for all of the other books so they cannot be distributed through Deseret Book.

I think in general Hyrum's works are pretty solid.

MD

One other thing... Hyrum is currently working on a series regarding the origination of the Constitution. I think it is up to 10 volumes now. It may be one of those works that never gets completed, similar to Nibley and the rewrite of The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri. Helen Mae is also working on a book that I am anxious to see completed. It is a book on the extent of the conspiratorial efforts that led up to the Martyrdom.

[MDalby]

OK, you have talked me into it. I am downloading the ISO files and I will give it another shot.

[rockslider]

Well, I am not sure how to respond to that post...

14 But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.

(Jacob 4:14)

MD

MD, my thoughts, and as I try a few things again, my prayers are with you and your leg. I'm glad you are enjoying the tapes.

An old friend, for some reason, has been sharing some things with me anew. FWIW, the spirit and message I enjoyed does not fit that particual scriputure, in fact the spirit whispers to me D&C 84:19-25

[rockslider]

OK, you have talked me into it. I am downloading the ISO files and I will give it another shot.

Everyone interested ... at the current rate, I should be done with the D&C tapes Wed. or so. The various seminars will fit on a single DVD and I will be making up a few for some friends and mailing them out. I need to go buy some CD mailers. Based on the download numbers, I believe I can handle the following offer.

If you will pm me a mailing address, I'll get enough mailers and likely get the DVD's burnt and send out Thursday or so. If anyone does not have the time, or would like the DVD's, drop me a postal address and I will get them out to you.

Chad

[MDalby]

Rockslider,

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I meant that scripture in reference to Paul, not you.