Anubis and Osiris vs. Elkenah and Abraham

[Vance]

If. I. Decide. To. Incorporate. An. Existing. Symbol. Into. My. Belief. System. (In. This. Case. The. Image. Of. The. Buddha.) And. Assign. A. Specific. Meaning. Within. My. Belief. System. To. This. Symbol. (In. This. Case. Christ. In. Prayer.). Then. Within. My. Belief. System. That. Is. What. Said. Symbol. Means.

Apparently, this was still way to fast. Perhaps if you put more space between the words.

But then again, with some people it doesn't matter how slow you type it.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Indeed. How dare people incorporate something into their belief system that has a different meaning when held within a different/original context. The outrage. The scandal of it all.

Foul, I say

[RussB]

It has a specific meaning to Mormons when held in conjunction with one of their religious texts. It has another specific meaning when held in conjunction with various Egyptian texts.

What Smith did, and what Mormons defend, is the equivalent of calling a black ball blue.

Osiris would have said, "Hey, it's black. Don't go trying to change things to suit your own story."

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Of course not. Tanner doesn't claim to be an Egyptologist,

No more than you...although here we actually have some who have experience in this field and not just a computer and keyboard.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Is it me or are the goal posts moving?

Nemesis

That is Russ and his friends at the bottom. The Book of Abraham police,

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

What Smith did, and what Mormons defend, is the equivalent of calling a black ball blue.

Osiris would have said, "Hey, it's black. Don't go trying to change things to suit your own story."

No it isn't, but thanks for playing Russ.

What JS did was look at a symbol like this, V and determined that it had more than one meaning.

Fancy that, a symbol can have more than one meanig.

[RussB]

No more than you...although here we actually have some who have experience in this field and not just a computer and keyboard.

Here you have an alleged prophet of God taking an Egyptian story and completely changing the meaning to suit his own theology and needs.

The Cat in the Hat has become Three Blind Mice and those who defend the changes are viewed suspiciously.

When asked why such changes should be considered legitimate, the standard Mormon reply is "Just have faith."

[RussB]

No it isn't, but thanks for playing Russ.

What JS did was look at a symbol like this, V[/]b and determined that it had more than one meaning.

Fancy that, a symbol can have more than one meanig.

Joseph Smith took dozens of symbols and completely changed their meaning to suit his own needs.

It would be like you writing a book of your life and your travels through Bangladesh while writing your memoirs.

Then Joseph came and said you traveled the dusty roads of Mexico (not Bangladesh) and you were writing a novel (not memoirs).

You would not recognize the story. The truth of your own story would matter to you, Mola. You would be furious with anyone who said that your travels were anything but YOU said they were.

[Blake]

Can anyone just take away privileges to participate on this board from Russ? It is pretty clear that he is just a troll who doesn't have the charity to engage in good faith dialog.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Joseph Smith took dozens of symbols and completely changed their meaning to suit his own needs.

It would be like you writing a book of your life and your travels through Bangladesh while writing your memoirs.

Then Joseph came and said you traveled the dusty roads of Mexico (not Bangladesh) and you were writing a novel (not memoirs).

You would not recognize the story. The truth of your own story would matter to you, Mola. You would be furious with anyone who said that your travels were anything but YOU said they were.

Can you answer my question Russ? Dodge ball is not in season.

I love red herrings too, they are really good on a bed of rice.

Does the symbol V have more than one meaning?

IF it does why does it?

[Doctor Steuss]

What Smith did, and what Mormons defend, is the equivalent of calling a black ball blue.

Osiris would have said, "Hey, it's black. Don't go trying to change things to suit your own story."

Recognizing the fallacy of the perfect analogy, methinks a more apt comparison would be someone taking a picture of a cloud that was originally meant to symbolize rain, and utilizing it in a story as a symbol of heaven.

Or to utilize your example of the ball: Taking a ball and saying it represents the earth (or some other spherical object).

One more example (which is closer to home) would be how the Egyptian Eye of Horus has been used not only as a symbolic representation of the Tiratna within Buddhism, but also as a Christian symbol representing the Holy Trinity.

Seems to me that it would be a rather strange position to hold that trying to defend the pious European Christians of the Renaissance is analogous to

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Can anyone just take away privileges to participate on this board from Russ? It is pretty clear that he is just a troll who doesn't have the charity to engage in good faith dialog.

Hmmm, Yeah. It really is not interest in good faith dialogue. "I have read every responce and every link and it is obvious that JS got it wrong. Opps".

My name is Russ.

[RussB]

Can you answer my question Russ? Dodge ball is not in season.

I love red herrings too, they are really good on a bed of rice.

Does the symbol V have more than one meaning?

IF it does why does it?

Okay, let's talk about the symbolism that Smith states we should accept as legitimate.

Where should we start. You have the floor.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Here you have an alleged prophet of God taking an Egyptian story and completely changing the meaning to suit his own theology and needs.

The Cat in the Hat has become Three Blind Mice and those who defend the changes are viewed suspiciously.

When asked why such changes should be considered legitimate, the standard Mormon reply is "Just have faith."

Wow,I have never used that one. I did however post this for those who are dismissive of "Mormon Scholars".

[Vance]

What is this?

http://www.goodshepherdcollinsville.org/Gifs/churchyear9.gif

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Okay, let's talk about the symbolism that Smith states we should accept as legitimate.

Where should we start. You have the floor.

As legitimate what? Legitimate egyptian? Did JS claim that everything that was explained was with in the context of the egyptian understanding? If so please tell me were I can find those quotes.

Now you have the floor.

Please tell me, does the symbol V have more than on meaning? Yes or no. If it does have more than one meaning, why does it have more than one?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

What is this?

http://www.goodshepherdcollinsville.org/Gifs/churchyear9.gif

"I have read every responce and every link and it is obvious that JS got it wrong. Opps".

[Doctor Steuss]

Russ,

The silliness of Ms. Tanner

[RussB]

Russ,

The silliness of Ms. Tanner

[Vance]

What is this?

http://www.goodshepherdcollinsville.org/Gifs/churchyear9.gif

Well well well!!!

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_symb.htm

The pre-Christian history of the fish symbol:

The fish symbol has been used for millennia worldwide as a religious symbol associated with the Pagan Great Mother Goddess. It is the outline of her vulva. The fish symbol was often drawn by overlapping two very thin crescent moons. One represented the crescent shortly before the new moon; the other shortly after, when the moon is just visible. The Moon is the heavenly body that has long been associated with the Goddess, just as the sun is a symbol of the God.

The link between the Goddess and fish was found in various areas of the ancient world:

> In China, Great Mother Kwan-yin often portrayed in the shape of a fish.

> In India, the Goddess Kali was called the "fish-eyed one"

> In Egypt, Isis was called the Great Fish of the Abyss

> In Greece the Greek word "delphos" meant both fish and womb. The word is derived from the location of the ancient Oracle at Delphi who worshipped the original fish goddess, Themis. The later fish Goddess, Aphrodite Salacia, was worshipped by her followers on her sacred day, Friday. They ate fish and engaging in orgies. From her name comes the English word "salacious" which means lustful or obscene. Also from her name comes the name of our fourth month, April. In later centuries, the Christian church adsorbed this tradition by requiring the faithful to eat fish on Friday - a tradition that was only recently abandoned.

> In ancient Rome Friday is called "dies veneris" or Day of Venus, the Pagan Goddess of Love.

> Throughout the Mediterranean, mystery religions used fish, wine and bread for their sacramental meal.

> In Scandinavia, the Great Goddess was named Freya; fish were eaten in her honor. The 6th day of the week was named "Friday" after her.

> In the Middle East, the Great Goddess of Ephesus was portrayed as a woman with a fish amulet over her genitals.

The fish symbol:

"... was so revered throughout the Roman empire that Christian authorities insisted on taking it over, with extensive revision of myths to deny its earlier female-genital meanings...Sometimes the Christ child was portrayed inside the vesica, which was superimposed on Mary's belly and obviously represented her womb, just as in the ancient symbolism of the Goddess." 4 Another author writes: "The fish headdress of the priests of Ea [a Sumero-Semitic God] later became the miter of the Christian bishops." 5

The symbol itself, the eating of fish on Friday and the association of the symbol with deity were all taken over by the early Church from Pagan sources. Only the sexual component was deleted.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Can anyone just take away privileges to participate on this board from Russ? It is pretty clear that he is just a troll who doesn't have the charity to engage in good faith dialog.

You have no idea...or if have ever been to CARM, you alredy know.

[Doctor Steuss]

The symbols themselves are pictographs that have actual meaning and as such can be read like words.

*Sigh*

Egyptologists who have examined Smith's mistranslation of those pictographs say that he didn't even come close to rendering an accurate translation of the symbolism.

*Double Sigh*

That remains the legitimate and substantial criticism against the BoA which causes those in the know to rightly condemn Smith's work as fraudulent.

*Triple Sigh*

P.S. You've missed the mark in assuming on my behalf that I seek Mormonism's demise.

To the contrary, I seeks its reformation to allow the Holy Spirit into its temples. I call on its prophets and apostles to stop the charade.

Best of luck on your crusade. You're off to a stellar start.

[The King's Servant]

You have no idea...or if have ever been to CARM, you alredy know.

PaPa, how uncharitable. You know how long CARM has put up with your trolling! Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

*Sigh*

*Double Sigh*

*Triple Sigh*

Best of luck on your crusade. You're off to a stellar start.

Russ...

P.S. You've missed the mark in assuming on my behalf that I seek Mormonism's demise.

To the contrary, I seeks its reformation to allow the Holy Spirit into its temples. I call on its prophets and apostles to stop the charade.

He does this by questioning everything they ever say and then when they move in this (his) "direction" he points out that they are not prophets because they changed "direction". Yes Russ, good luck with that crusade. You are not among a bunch of high fivers here.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

PaPa, how uncharitable. You know how long CARM has put up with your trolling! Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Do you define trolling as "keeping their feet to the fire". Guilty.