"Setting Gospel Vernacular Straight"

[Scott Lloyd]

I am not going to even attempt to get into commenting on an article about spellin' not with my track record. I'ms jus trilled ya'lls let me play here.

I took occasion to read some of the "Reader Comments" about my piece on the Deseret News Web site. It's amazing how angry some people can get over what is intended as a light-hearted diversion.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I took occasion to read some of the "Reader Comments" about my piece on the Deseret News Web site. It's amazing how angry some people can get over what is intended as a light-hearted diversion.

Too much time on their hands

[Lachoneus]

I think hymn is preferred . . ..

As I said, the word hymn may be preferred, but the word song is not "incorrect."

[Scott Lloyd]

As I said, the word hymn may be preferred, but the word song is not "incorrect."

It is in the sense that I used the word incorrect. See my prior post.

[Brade]

How about this one (I've brought this up before). In ordinary English discourse the expression 'the Church' does not express a proposition and doesn't have a truth-value (i.e. "The Church is true"). In standard English predicating a truth-value to a noun phrase is meaningless (i.e. "My hand is true", "The moon is false", "Brade is true", and so on). It may be true that Mormons use 'the Church' idiosyncratically as a name for a proposition or set of propositions. For example, I might stipulate that the expression 'zorman' means 'Brade has a cold' and then sensibly utter "Zorman is true" or "It's true that zorman" (notice how odd it sounds if you say "It's true that the Church" if the expression 'the Church' refers to the Church and not a proposition). But, I haven't really seen any evidence for that being the case. Really, I just think that the expression "The Church is true" is a stand-in for the claim that the Mormon church is the only church with members that hold God's authority.

[Scott Lloyd]

How about this one (I've brought this up before). In ordinary English discourse the expression 'the Church' does not express a proposition and doesn't have a truth-value (i.e. "The Church is true"). In standard English predicating a truth-value to a noun phrase is meaningless (i.e. "My hand is true", "The moon is false", "Brade is true", and so on). It may be true that Mormons use 'the Church' idiosyncratically as a name for a proposition or set of propositions, but I haven't really seen any evidence for that being the case. Really, I just think that the expression "The Church is true" is a stand-in for the claim that the Mormon church is the only church with members that hold God's authority.

Indeed, "the gospel is true" or "the restored gospel is true" would be more precise.

[hordak]

In standard English predicating a truth-value to a noun phrase is meaningless (i.e. "My hand is true", "The moon is false", "Brade is true", and so on).

I believe that should be e.g., because you're listing examples to illustrate what was discussed in the prior statement. You are not clearing it up, i.e., rephrasing the previous statement to clarify it.

[mercyngrace]

Indeed, "the gospel is true" or "the restored gospel is true" would be more precise.

Indeed! I find it kind of grating when people say "the church is true" because when I hear true used as a predicate adjective, I always think of true defined as "loyal, faithful, or steadfast". Like saying someone's love is true or a friend is true. So my natural inclination is to ask (not out loud, of course) "True to what?"

True to the faith that our parents have cherished, I suppose but then again, the Lamanites were also true to the traditions of their parents... LOL

The gospel is true. The teachings of the church are true and its authority authentic. I don't know ... say anything but "the church is true" - it's like this grammatical itch I just have to scratch.

[volgadon]

I took occasion to read some of the "Reader Comments" about my piece on the Deseret News Web site. It's amazing how angry some people can get over what is intended as a light-hearted diversion.

One of my mission companions gave me a 2 hour long lecture because I said enzyn instead of enSIGN. The funny thing is that he was one of the most disobedient elders in our mission.

[Brade]

I believe that should be e.g., because you're listing examples to illustrate what was discussed in the prior statement. You are not clearing it up, i.e., rephrasing the previous statement to clarify it.

Thanks, you're right. Every once in a while I look that up to remind myself how to use those things. Funny thing is, I recall looking it up as recently as last week, and yet I still get it wrong.

[consiglieri]

Indeed, "the gospel is true" or "the restored gospel is true" would be more precise.

But inasmuch as "the gospel" and "the restored gospel" are just as much nouns as "the Church," how can they be said to be true, either?

"Correctly," I mean.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[nicolasconnault]

But inasmuch as "the gospel" and "the restored gospel" are just as much nouns as "the Church," how can they be said to be true, either?

"Correctly," I mean.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Saying "The Church is true" is grammatically incorrect, and I think it's a "lazy" statement. It's a bit like praying "Please bless everybody. Amen". It's so all-encompassing that it shows very little thought about what the statement really includes. In most instances it's quite meaningless to say it. However, I think that most people who say it actually mean "I believe that this is the true Church". It would be better if they instead explained why they believe this