Is MADB and anti-Mormon website?

[Jeff K.]

Supposedly everyone is "loyal", but with a somewhat denigrating tone, you judge a group to be self styled loyalist. I have never called myself a loyalist, or even a self styled loyalist. I leave that to your judgements.

Which of course contradicts:

Please note that I have not passed judgement on anyone. Nor have I attempted to classify what is, or is not, an orthodox Mormon. Nor have I proposed any sort of orthodoxy standard.

Oh those pesky beams and motes...

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

I want to add my two cents to the discussion.

It is rather disconcerting to see many members start to act the way that they do on this forum, at times asking questions more apt for the unnameable board or possibly from a couple of people from another board i visit.

But then again, I do remember the parable of the wheat and the tares. There will be many members counted among the tares as well as many non members counted among the wheat. Claiming membership by itself does not guarantee salvation, doing the works that God wants us to do guarantees it. I think we know what those works are, if we are familiar with what the scriptures ancient and modern teach about them.

I think I have read in one place or another, forget the exact source, but it was from one of the early prophets...that God was going to judge His people first and then those from outside the Church, before the Second Coming of Christ.

It is a time for the members of the Church to have their own testimonies instead of those testimonies borrowed from their parents. Those that have their own testimonies will be ready for what awaits us and is currently occuring.

[Zakuska]

I think I have read in one place or another, forget the exact source, but it was from one of the early prophets...that God was going to judge His people first and then those from outside the Church, before the Second Coming of Christ.

It is a time for the members of the Church to have their own testimonies instead of those testimonies borrowed from their parents. Those that have their own testimonies will be ready for what awaits us and is currently occuring.

Its from the new testament...

1 Peter 4

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

I would also add that those who are following Hero's in bright shiney suits around like lap dogs and falling over themselves at every . ; and ! that comes off their podiums around are going to be in for a big suprise as well. ALL RULE must be put under foot. All men must govern themsleves and Know the Lord before the great and dreadful day of the Lord comes.

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

Its from the new testament...

1 Peter 4

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

I would also add that those who are following Hero's in bright shiney suits around like lap dogs are going to be in for a big suprise as well.

Thanks for the scripture Zakuska. Just one question, what were you referring to in your last statement?

[Zakuska]

Thanks for the scripture Zakuska. Just one question, what were you referring to in your last statement?

Those who worship the General Authorities and Church leaders and every word they say or write as if they are Gods on earth, as many of the Posters on this board appear to be doing.

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

Those who worship the General Authorities and Church leaders and every word they say as if they are Gods on earth, as many of the Posters on this board appear to be doing.

Ah. Good point. Hence the need to try every word to see that it is of God, as John advises, and I would even say Brigham Young advised it as well. Investigate and ask questions. I think President Uchtdorf said something like that in his last CES fireside.

[Zakuska]

Ah. Good point. Hence the need to try every word to see that it is of God, as John advises, and I would even say Brigham Young advised it as well. Investigate and ask questions. I think President Uchtdorf said something like that in his last CES fireside.

Exactly, Yet posters such as BCSpace are telling us that even the Church News is Official Binding Church doctrine.

So what do we do when the CHurch news gets its facts wrong, just like was witnessed just a few months ago at conference when President Holland held up the BOM that hyrum had at the Jail?

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

Exactly, Yet posters such as BCSpace are telling us that even the Church News is Official Binding Church doctrine.

So what do we do when the CHurch news gets its facts wrong, just like was witnessed just a few months ago at conference when President Holland held up the BOM that hyrum had at the Jail?

Church News isn't scripture, for one thing. And the closest it comes to scripture is paraphrasing the talks given at Conference. I prefer the Ensign and Liahona...though I do like reading Church News and Mormon Times from time to time.

What impacted me about Elder Holland's discourse, wasn't the book that he held, but the testimony that he bore of the truth of the mission of Joseph Smith, and also of the Book of Mormon. Also, the directness of his words were filled with impact, given that he ticked off a lot of people by saying what he said, but no matter. He really strengthened me as well as the faithful members of the Church.

Those that would say something about the book that he held, are, in my opinion, going beyond the mark. They are concentrating on one individual leaf instead of beholding the beauty of the forest.

[Zakuska]

Church News isn't scripture, for one thing. And the closest it comes to scripture is paraphrasing the talks given at Conference. I prefer the Ensign and Liahona...though I do like reading Church News and Mormon Times from time to time.

What impacted me about Elder Holland's discourse, wasn't the book that he held, but the testimony that he bore of the truth of the mission of Joseph Smith, and also of the Book of Mormon. Also, the directness of his words were filled with impact, given that he ticked off a lot of people by saying what he said, but no matter. He really strengthened me as well as the faithful members of the Church.

Amen. I hear you completely and agree.

Those that would say something about the book that he held, are, in my opinion, going beyond the mark. They are concentrating on one individual leaf instead of beholding the beauty of the forest.

Yet mozy on over to thise thread and you will hear BCSpace and Cinepro going off on how the Church News is scripturte and offical Binding Church doctrine.

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/47355-how-strictly-must-one-follow-the-manual/page__view__findpost__p__1208785597

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

Amen. I hear you completely and agree.

Yet mozy on over to thise thread and you will hear BCSpace and Cinepro going off on how the Church News is scripturte and offical Binding Church doctrine.

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/47355-how-strictly-must-one-follow-the-manual/page__view__findpost__p__1208785597

I have commented on that thread...seems like there is a little too much commotion right now...over what constitutes scripture and what doesn't. I explained the Church News as I explained the manuals...

[cjcampbell]

Ah. Good point. Hence the need to try every word to see that it is of God, as John advises, and I would even say Brigham Young advised it as well. Investigate and ask questions. I think President Uchtdorf said something like that in his last CES fireside.

Oh, the irony of citing something President Uchtdorf might have said in a CES fireseide, when accusing other members of worshipping general authorities! And Brigham Young, too! What general authorities will you cite next to support your argument that we should pick and choose and say that only the things we agree with are inspired by God?

Please, no more! My sides are splitting!

[cinepro]

Exactly, Yet posters such as BCSpace are telling us that even the Church News is Official Binding Church doctrine.

So what do we do when the CHurch news gets its facts wrong, just like was witnessed just a few months ago at conference when President Holland held up the BOM that hyrum had at the Jail?

While I haven't argued that "The Church News" = "Official Binding Church Doctrine" (a classification I have to assume you made up since it doesn't appear anywhere on the Church website), it should be noted that your argument that the Church News couldn't do so because it sometimes "gets its facts wrong" implies that you believe the acknowledged sources of Official Doctrine never get their facts wrong.

Is this the case? Is it your belief that nowhere in the standard works are "the facts wrong"?

Also, remember the standard for Official Doctrine set forth by the newsroom isn't that anything published by the Church is doctrine, it is those things consistently published by the Church. Big difference.

(It should also be noted that Elder Holland apparently was holding the correct book).

[Zakuska]

While I haven't argued that "The Church News" = "Official Binding Church Doctrine" (a classification I have to assume you made up since it doesn't appear anywhere on the Church website), it should be noted that your argument that the Church News couldn't do so because it sometimes "gets its facts wrong" implies that you believe the acknowledged sources of Official Doctrine never get their facts wrong.

While you haven't made the specific Claim BCSpace most definatley has.

Is this the case? Is it your belief that nowhere in the standard works are "the facts wrong"?

Second... Im no innerrantist.... I know lots of places in the Standard works were facts are wrong. Most notably in the chapter heading etc. Or in the Dictionary... Theres also a lot of Historical facts they get wrong as well. Such as the Nibonidus fiasco in the book of Daniel.

Also, remember the standard for Official Doctrine set forth by the newsroom isn't that anything published by the Church is doctrine, it is those things consistently published by the Church. Big difference.

The most consistant published work of the Church is the LDS quad.

Nothing more need be said about consitancy, since the Chruch news is different in every issue printed.

(It should also be noted that Elder Holland apparently was holding the correct book).

PS. I know he held up the correct book. The Church news however got its facts wrong when it reported a different book as the book Hyrum had.

[notHagoth7]

But sometimes, the way it comes across on this board is:

You see a man running off a cliff, you punch him and ask him what the @*#$ he's thinking!

And I prefer:

You see a man running off a cliff, you call to him lovingly with arms outstretched and give him a reason to back away from the ledge ;-)

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

Oh, the irony of citing something President Uchtdorf might have said in a CES fireseide, when accusing other members of worshipping general authorities! And Brigham Young, too! What general authorities will you cite next to support your argument that we should pick and choose and say that only the things we agree with are inspired by God?

Please, no more! My sides are splitting!

Could you please tell me when I accused someone of worshipping General Authorities?

I do appreciate their counsel. The need is always to discern when the GAs are citing opinion (like in the case of Paul for example in I Corinthians 7) and when they are citing doctrine. Also to ask questions always, and thus increase your testimony, as both John and Moroni counsel, as well as Brigham Young and Dieter Uchtdorf.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Is it just me, or have a lot of the topic titles posted by people who supposedly think they are good members of the Church become more than a little bit hostile? Reading these topic titles, one would think that we are exactly the repressive, domineering cult that some antis claim we are. I am beginning to wonder if some of the "apologists" aren't among our worst enemies.

*Sheepishly asks* Am I one of them?