Nephite "machines"

[notHagoth7]

I would suspect of uneven and rough roads would have a lot to do with lack of wheeled vehicles also the lack of finding ball bearings.

That might not explain things.

Handcarts. Covered wagons. Wheeled ploughs.

Few of those require a pre-cut road. Or ball bearings.

[notHagoth7]

If there was a facepalm emoticon I would use it right now.

Just having a bit of fun w/you.

I appreciate your in put in the thread.

[Connolly]

The construction of any large structure will require the use of basic machines such as a pulley, ramp, wedge, etc. Since the BoM people were obviously familiar with large structures then its logical to assume that they had some knowledge of simple machines. Remember, Jarom was not that far removed from the generation that immigrated from Jerusalem. It could also be something so simple as a wine press or a grain mill, both of which were machines and both of which they had.

But there is another possibility here as well. The word machinery does not have to refer to a mechanism, it could also refer to the craft of metal forming, especially since it is mentioned right along with the working of various metals.

[handys003]

That might not explain things.

Handcarts. Covered wagons. Wheeled ploughs.

Few of those require a pre-cut road. Or ball bearings.

You know one thing that kind of bugs me is the Chinese had wheeled carts. Why is it the Japanese never developed until the Europeans arrived? Japanese had Chinese descendants.

[notHagoth7]

You know one thing that kind of bugs me is the Chinese had wheeled carts. Why is it the Japanese never developed until the Europeans arrived? Japanese had Chinese descendants.

Jarod Diamond's Guns Germs & Steel is a pretty interesting read for that kind of perspective. He basically explores how culture itself can largely predetermine whether innovations would generally be rejected or incorporated by any one specific people.

[notHagoth7]

I'll take one of those to go!

In this forum, Monty Python moments are few and far between.

[notHagoth7]

BTW don't bring up elephants there were only macaws

But I thought they were 20 feet tall?

If a sparrow can carry a coconut, who knows what a giant macaw could lift.

Soldier: Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

King Arthur: Not at all. They could be carried.

Soldier: What? A swallow carrying a coconut?

King Arthur: It could grip it by the husk!

Soldier: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.

King Arthur: Well, it doesn't matter. Will you go and tell your master that Arthur from the Court of Camelot is here?

Soldier: Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?

King Arthur: Please!

A brief moment of whimsy. (This too shall pass.)

Now back to our scheduled broadcast...

[handys003]

Jarod Diamond's Guns Germs & Steel is a pretty interesting read for that kind of perspective. He basically explores how culture itself can largely predetermine whether innovations would generally be rejected or incorporated by any one specific people.

Nani (What)? Another book to buy? I personally thought it was like my wifes Samurai ancestors. They cut off the heads of the smart ones.

At least that's what she said would've happen to my smart ***.

[notHagoth7]

At least that's what she said would've happen to my smart ***.

The book basically outlines how many of the important innovations we enjoy today have grown out of one main culture.

(And explores some of the possible why behind that.)

It's a fascinating read for anyone interested in the roots of Western Civilization.

[Zakuska]

Maybe Jaroms machinery were flying machines?

http://tinyurl.com/yc2923n

[Flyonthewall]

For some reason, the first thing that popped into my head was Indiana Jones.

It could be anything from a block-and-tackle to complex water powered objects that moved, lifted or otherwise manipulated things.

[notHagoth7]

Maybe Jaroms machinery were flying machines?

I'm guessing you had Fruit Loops for breakfast?

Some are saying the Nazca used hot-air balloons to guide the makers of the Nazca lines.

I saw a show on that premise several years ago. Here's an article that explains the basis for that assertion.

[jkfrost]

In Jarom, we're told about Nephite machines that I have a question or two about. Here it is in some of the context:

And it came to pass that they came many times against us, the Nephites, to battle. But our kings and our leaders were mighty men in the faith of the Lord; and they taught the people the ways of the Lord; wherefore, we withstood the Lamanites and swept them away out of our lands, and began to fortify our cities, or whatsoever place of our inheritance.

And we multiplied exceedingly, and spread upon the face of the land, and became exceedingly rich in gold, and in silver, and in precious things, and in fine workmanship of wood, in buildings, and in machinery, and also in iron and copper, and brass and steel, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground, and weapons of war

[CV75]

Has anyone seen Peruvian, Mesoamerican, or North American writings, artwork, or artifacts that offer an example of a potential Nephite "machine"?

It is interesting to me that the machines are listed with the other items indicating wealth or luxury (gold, silver, precious things, wood, buildings, iron, copper, brass, steel, etc.)--"exceedingly rich ...in machinery"--as if it were in teh category of a toy or other artwork / entertainment / amusement. But perhaps the rich were able to afford labor-saving devices as well.

[notHagoth7]

...they tried to copy the Liahona and came up with this:

I believe copies were made. Just as they made a copy of Solomon's temple, Laban's sword, and more.

Some time back, I wrote a bit about it, with some documentation to demonstrate the viability of the premise.

The orb's role in Western coronation ceremonies is quite interesting.

Here's a glimpse of what I believe became Denmark's eventual copy:

But that's a bit off topic. Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[jkfrost]

I believe copies were made. Just as they made a copy of Solomon's temple, Laban's sword, and more.

Some time back, I wrote a bit about it, with some documentation to demonstrate the viability of the premise.

The orb's role in Western coronation ceremonies is quite interesting.

Interesting, I would like to read it sometime.

BTW - Ever watch Brisco County Jr.?

Amanda: "What's your name?"

Brisco: "Brisco County."

Amanda: "Is that where your from?"

Brisco: "No, that's who I am."

[handys003]

Interesting, I would like to read it sometime.

BTW - Ever watch Brisco County Jr.?

Bruce Campbell one of my favorite comedic actors. I prefer Ash though. "Come get some"!

[jkfrost]

Bruce Campbell one of my favorite comedic actors. I prefer Ash though. "Come get some"!

Never seen it but I found this quote:

Ash: When you've just emptied two barrels of a shotgun into the head

of your favorite bartender it's a pretty good bet that happy hour's over.

Rumor has it Bruce Campbell will be in Spiderman 4

But I can take him...

[Zakuska]

Who can forget Jolees orbs?

No. Not the ones on her person. The one in the Movie that lead her to religious hot spots around the Globe?

Lara Croft is tasked by MI6 to find Pandora's Box, an object from ancient legends which supposedly contains one of the deadliest plagues on Earth, before evil Nobel Prize-winning scientist turned bioterrorist Jonathan Reiss can get his hands on it. The key to finding the box, which is hidden in the mysterious Cradle of Life, is a magical luminous orb that serves as a map. Lara finds the orb while exploring the submerged Luna Temple following an earthquake off the coast of Santorini, but it is stolen by crime lord Chen Lo, who in turn plans to sell the orb to Reiss. Lara recruits an old lover, Terry Sheridan, a former mercenary and Royal Marine who had spent his last couple of years in prison in Kazakhstan, to help her track down Chen Lo and the orb.

I thought for sure they were going to make some off handed Joke about the Liahona.

http://en.wikipedia...._Cradle_of_Life

[notHagoth7]

Interesting, I would like to read it sometime.

Go here, and fast forward to the chapter that starts on page 224.

(That chapter was an early draft, and is in dire need of a rewrite. But it'll have to do for now.)

BTW - Ever watch Brisco County Jr.?

No. I have no frame of reference for that.

[handys003]

Never seen it but I found this quote:

Ash: When you've just emptied two barrels of a shotgun into the head

of your favorite bartender it's a pretty good bet that happy hour's over.

Rumor has it Bruce Campbell will be in Spiderman 4

But I can take him...

You never saw "Evil Dead" triology?

[notHagoth7]

A good example of a machine that goes way back in history is the backstrap loom. It was very common in the ancient Mayan culture and probably so in other ancient Mesoamerican cultures.

Is there any idea whether Peru and Andean/Hopewell civilizations used this (or similar) technology?

[poulsenll]

Is there any idea whether Peru and Andean/Hopewell civilizations used this (or similar) technology?

From what I have read, it is a fairly common technology for any preindustrial culture that produced cloth from wool or other fibers. I doubt that it could be used to distinguish between possible cultural locations for BofM events.

Larry P

[handys003]

Is there any idea whether Peru and Andean/Hopewell civilizations used this (or similar) technology?

I tried to copy pics of some Meso-American tunics with intricate weaves. Apparently it keeps giving me error on upload. Anyhow not photos of looms, but the tunics pics at the link provided on page one from the Dallas Museum of Art collection shows that looms must have been used. The collection is dated 600 -800 AD Donated by the McDermotts of Ancient American Art.

http://dallasmuseumo...83-2f663ab83b43

[notHagoth7]

From what I have read, it is a fairly common technology for any preindustrial culture that produced cloth from wool or other fibers.

K.

I doubt that it could be used to distinguish between possible cultural locations for BofM events.

Actually, that wasn't my initial intent w/the thread.

I'm guessing such "machinery," whatever it was, would have most likely been made out of wood, as you suggested with pulleys. So there is slim chance of such things surviving to our day. I was hoping, however, that there might be a few clues about potential meanings/utilizations of machinery in ancient murals or the like.