What must I do to be saved?

[Doctor Steuss]

Salvation is not DOING something; it is KNOWING someone (John 17:3). Salvation is not based on what we might do; it is based on what Christ has ALREADY DONE (John 19:30). Salvation is not TRYING; it is TRUSTING (John 6:47). If salvation could be earned by anything we do, then Christ

[Vance]

so your biblical jesus does not exist.

Thank you for admitting that our Jesus is Biblical!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Mormonism teaches that a person saved by grace after doing all they can do.

Q. Can you honestly say that you have done all that you can do in order to access saving grace?

Please do not throw this question back to me until I get a direct heart felt sanwer from you.

DLC

Yes.

I fixed your question. We must have faith and have works to access saving grace. Faith without works is dead. All that is required is taht we have faith and back that faith up with works. THe work that is required is to follow Christ to the best of our abilities. That is why the atonement is so important because we couldn't be saved by our selves.

[Vance]

If I am somehow saved, will I gain this same ability to repeatedly plagiarize others without the slightest pang of guilt?

Just want to know if thievery is part of the package.

(Unless, of course, you are responsible for the full content of the "G[-]d's Message on the Web" podcast, as well as the other couple of places you have plagiarized)

Since he has been exposed as a flagrant plagiarist, I am less interested in his posts.

[DLClark]

Thank you for admitting that our Jesus is Biblical!

The Mormon doctrine of the Law of Eternal Progression disqualifies the Mormon Jesus from being the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus, as Momons teach, was a spirit being who became a man through God the Father having sex with Mary. Your Jesus was a man who became a god. The Mormon Jesus was never the one through whom all thing that ever were created came into being by him. So, your Jesus is a demi-god. Why do you worship Jesus instead of God the Father who created him? Why then stop with god the father. Why not worship his father or his fathers father? If you go back far enough, with the Law of Eternal Progression, you find the first cause of everything and that is the Jesus of the Bible. John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:15-16.

DLC

[DLClark]

Yes.

I fixed your question. We must have faith and have works to access saving grace. Faith without works is dead. All that is required is taht we have faith and back that faith up with works. THe work that is required is to follow Christ to the best of our abilities. That is why the atonement is so important because we couldn't be saved by our selves.

James never says that faith saves. He does say that without works ones faith is not operating properly. there is a difference you know.

Q. Have you done all that you can do in order to be saved by grace?

DLC

[Vance]

The Mormon doctrine of the Law of Eternal Progression disqualifies the Mormon Jesus from being the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus, as Momons teach, was a spirit being who became a man through God the Father having sex with Mary. Your Jesus was a man who became a god. The Mormon Jesus was never the one through whom all thing that ever were created came into being by him. So, your Jesus is a demi-god. Why do you worship Jesus instead of God the Father who created him? Why then stop with god the father. Why not worship his father or his fathers father? If you go back far enough, with the Law of Eternal Progression, you find the first cause of everything and that is the Jesus of the Bible. John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:15-16.

DLC

CFR from LDS canon!!!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

James never says that faith saves. He does say that without works ones faith is not operating properly. there is a difference you know.

Q. Have you done all that you can do in order to be saved by grace?

DLC

Yes. Expet that I have not yet endured to the end as I am still in my mortal life and am not dead.

Tell me DLClark, If James tells us that faith with our works is dead, tell me who one can expect to be saved without works? I cannot find a reference for "He does say that without works ones faith is not operating properly". That is quite a bit different than saying "faith with out works is dead". There is a difference between quoting what is actually said and making something up that was never said, you know?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

The Mormon doctrine of the Law of Eternal Progression disqualifies the Mormon Jesus from being the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus, as Momons teach, was a spirit being who became a man through God the Father having sex with Mary.

DLC

This is false DLClark. I cannot find one reference for Jesus being produced by God having sex with Mary. I sure hope you provider quotes so we can see exactly what they say.

[mrmendoza]

What I am saying is that faith in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. The unsaved person is asked to believe on Jesus Christ as his personal Savior. Repentance is not a separate act in addition to faith.

Repentance is included in believing. Faith and repentance are like two sides of a coin. Genuine faith includes repentance, and genuine repentance includes faith. The Greek word for repentance (metanoia) means to change one

[Doctor Steuss]

Then repentence, at least the way you difine it is necessary for salvation?

Mike

For the sake of clarity, it isn't exactly how

[Zakuska]

The church began at Pentecost with the baptism of the spirit whereby He/Holy Spirit places all believers into the one obdy of Christ, 1 cor. 12:13. The key passage on Spirit baptism is found in 1 Corinthians 12:13

[mrmendoza]

Mike,

You will not be able to get through to those who choose to believe the constant rehash of old anti arguments. They do not seek to understand, but to oppose anything you say. But......I, like you, always seem to make an effort to give information in the hope that a sincere lurker with no preconceived notions will be able to consider for himself or herself what is true.

Jim in Texas

Yeah, ain't it the trurh!

Mike

[mrmendoza]

I'll have to agree with D.I. Clark. If however you are presently saved then Hebrews 6 & 10, John 15, I Corinthians 3, and I John 5 apply to you.

Ok, I read the passages you mentioned. So what? It seems to me that what's being said there is exactly what we've been saying all along! As partackers of His great atonement, we are obligated to not just love Him, but to serve Him by keeping His commandments! This post should be directed to Dl & Hoops!

Mike

[Programmer]

Also notice that the rock, heard the word and "BELEIVED" for a while then fell away. That right there kills OSAS.

Deader than a door-nail.

[mrmendoza]

Which, of course, is balogna or baloney (depending on your preference). It doesn't have to be and you know it. but, despite your blinders, the Trinity is clearly and unequivocably expressed in the bible.

I always get a kick when I see or hear people say things like "clearly this means", or "the Bible clearly says", and then has to do a long dissertation to show just how clearly anybody would have understood it if they understood Greek, or Hebrew, or read all the works of the early Christian Fathers, and knew (And understood!) all the prevailing creeds through the ages! Of course you're not doing that (The long dissertation, that is!) here, for which we are all greatful.

The traditional Trinitarian doctrine is incomprehinsable! Even everybodies favorite Bible scholar, the one and only "Bible Answer Man", Hank Hannagraf, has said it this way (OR something like this.) "We can't comprehend it, we can only aprehend it by the Spirit!" Of course I haven't quite figured out wht that means either!

Mike

[Programmer]

You misunderstand. Of course, since lds don't really want to understand, they're just waiting for the next opportunity to scream bigot, mormophobe, hater, etc., etc., etc., etc.

But I'll explain anyway. The question I am answering is: "how will I know if I am still saved."

Which is patently false. Painting all Latter Day Saints as not 'Really' wanting to understand is ridiculous. How did you do that? Did you interview them one by one? All 13 million of them? I suppose you have read all their minds and hearts to be able to come to such a conclusion? Or are you just thinking of a handful of people whom you have associated with on this board, and then described many by the actions of a few?

[mrmendoza]

Then that's on your baptist church, because they didn't teach you very well. That doesn't change the fact that baptist doctrine about Jesus and lds doctrine about Jesus are completely different. One can not be an expansion of the other, or a greater understanding, they are at complete and whole odds regarding the divinity of Jesus.

Whatever you think Baptist doctrine should be, for those of us who have been there, we learned to love Jesus from the beginning, it was because their doctrine was not comprehensive enough that caused us to look more for answers to the questions of life. Things like "Why are we here?" "Where did we come from?" and in my case "Why couldn't an omniposencet God just forgive us, without having to send His only begotten Son to be tourtured to death in order to save us? Yes, I learned to love Jesus as a child in the Baptist church, but I learned how to serve Him in the LDS church!

Mike

[Programmer]

Works are not required for salvation. For one to be assured of one's salvation, one component to accomplish that is to be loyal to essential christian doctrine. Without that, one will be buoyed and swayed by all kinds of nonsensical doctrine - some which is lds doctrine.

Another component of assurance is works - I know of no one who would deny that.

Last I checked, the major works that LDS doctrine requires is:

1. Faith

2. Repentence

3. Baptism

4. Confirmation by the Holy Ghost

After that, a saved Latter Day Saint is then precisely in the same camp concerning 'good works' as another Evangelical born again.

So... go ahead and fight against those 4 biblical works I just enumerated (If you dare). But if you did, you would probably be advancing some other faith that doesn't resemble christianity.

And the notion that the LDS church has abandoned core doctrine is absurd. You completely misrepresent the church and it's theology when you say nonsense like that. And if you continue it, people will begin to listen to you less and less, despite your active presence here. The commonly held creeds that the LDS church disagree's with is the part of the Nicean Creed that says God is immaterial, without body, parts or passions (An unbiblical lie). Whom am I to believe the Bible, or the Nicean creed which came 300 years afterwards? I think the choice is obvious. I pick the Bible. that I also pick Joseph Smith, and the Book of Mormon, and my own revelations doesn't take away from the Bible, it actually confirms it.

As for myself, I had a very real experience with Christ when I was a young boy, and I was 'completely saved' then. No one in the world can tell me I didn't experience what I experienced. I will not share more of it, but I will say that I am as saved, if not more so than any born again evangelical southern baptist.

[Programmer]

Whatever you think Baptist doctrine should be, for those of us who have been there, we learned to love Jesus from the beginning, it was because their doctrine was not comprehensive enough that caused us to look more for answers to the questions of life. Things like "Why are we here?" "Where did we come from?" and in my case "Why couldn't an omniposencet God just forgive us, without having to send His only begotten Son to be tourtured to death in order to save us? Yes, I learned to love Jesus as a child in the Baptist church, but I learned how to serve Him in the LDS church!

Mike

Well said!

[Hoops22]

Whatever you think Baptist doctrine should be, for those of us who have been there,

It doesn't matter what I think it should be, what matters is what it actually is. And whether or not it is taught at the local level. In your case, apparently, it was not. That is a great shame because they are at least complicit in where you are now.

we learned to love Jesus from the beginning, it was because their doctrine was not comprehensive enough that caused us to look more for answers to the questions of life.

Strange. I've never found sbc doctrine not addressing an issue.

Things like "Why are we here?" "Where did we come from?" and in my case "Why couldn't an omniposencet God just forgive us, without having to send His only begotten Son to be tourtured to death in order to save us?

Are those doctrinal questions?

Yes, I learned to love Jesus as a child in the Baptist church, but I learned how to serve Him in the LDS church!

I'm glad you are serving Him the best you can. I am ashamed and embarrassed that your experience with the sbc has led, at least in part, you to change Jesus, the head of the catholic church, into something He is not.

[Hoops22]

Last I checked, the major works that LDS doctrine requires is:

1. Faith

2. Repentence

3. Baptism

4. Confirmation by the Holy Ghost

Require for what? Salvation? That's fine. There are some in our camp who think the same way. They're wrong, of course, but they do.

After that, a saved Latter Day Saint is then precisely in the same camp concerning 'good works' as another Evangelical born again.

No, he isn't. A lds rejects the Trinity, among other things.

So... go ahead and fight against those 4 biblical works I just enumerated (If you dare). But if you did, you would probably be advancing some other faith that doesn't resemble christianity.

I highly doubt that.

And the notion that the LDS church has abandoned core doctrine is absurd.

Seriously? That's the whole point of the lds church. It was created because core doctrine, like the Trinity, is wrong.

You completely misrepresent the church and it's theology when you say nonsense like that. And if you continue it, people will begin to listen to you less and less, despite your active presence here.

So lds is classically Trinitarian? I'm sure that's news to the brethren.

The commonly held creeds that the LDS church disagree's with is the part of the Nicean Creed that says God is immaterial, without body, parts or passions (An unbiblical lie). Whom am I to believe the Bible, or the Nicean creed which came 300 years afterwards?

So you agree with the rest of the creed? Despite it having been written 300 years afterwards? Why would you do that?

I think the choice is obvious. I pick the Bible. that I also pick Joseph Smith,

The crux

and the Book of Mormon, and my own revelations doesn't take away from the Bible, it actually confirms it.

more cruxing.

Not really, no. Some if it does, but as a whole, no.

As for myself, I had a very real experience with Christ when I was a young boy, and I was 'completely saved' then. No one in the world can tell me I didn't experience what I experienced. I will not share more of it, but I will say that I am as saved, if not more so than any born again evangelical southern baptist.

Good for you. I'll see you there.

[DLClark]

Yes. Expet that I have not yet endured to the end as I am still in my mortal life and am not dead.

Tell me DLClark, If James tells us that faith with our works is dead, tell me who one can expect to be saved without works? I cannot find a reference for "He does say that without works ones faith is not operating properly". That is quite a bit different than saying "faith with out works is dead". There is a difference between quoting what is actually said and making something up that was never said, you know?

Joseph F. Smith made this comment. "Salvation is twofold: General- that which comes to all men irrespective of a belief (in this life) in Christ - and Individual - that which man merits through his own acts through life and by obedience to laws and ordinances of the gospel." D & S Vol. 1, p. 134.

Q. Have you done enough to merit God saving you, individual salvation?

DLC

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Joseph F. Smith made this comment. "Salvation is twofold: General- that which comes to all men irrespective of a belief (in this life) in Christ - and Individual - that which man merits through his own acts through life and by obedience to laws and ordinances of the gospel." D & S Vol. 1, p. 134.

Q. Have you done enough to merit God saving you, individual salvation?

DLC

Yup. now what.

[DLClark]

Yup. now what.

I asked you this, "Q. Have you done enough to merit God saving you, individual salvation?"

You sasid, "Yup, now what?"

Q How do you know that you have done enough to merit God saving you?

DLC