What must I do to be saved?

[Doctor Steuss]

<Snip>

Hi DLClark,

How's your day going? I'm excited for the weekend myself. By the way, during the time you spent "researching the information," did you happen to actually read all of the sources you just provided in order to support your claim? If so, you might want to get your mind out of the gutter ('tis probably not very Christian to have sex so predominantly on one's mind).

Hugs**,

Stu

PS.

Ever heard of Freud?

**Edited to add: My salutation is not a proposition for a form of liaison (just to avoid any potential awkward moments based on your previous way of reading some things).

[Vance]

Dr. Stuess,

You have a very good point. Not a single quote DLClark provided had the word "sex" in it. Yet, he heard "sex" in them all. That does reveal an obsession with "sex". Freud would be proud of DL for seeing "sex" in places it is NOT.

The Virgin Mary and God the Father had sex that produce the Son Jesus Christ.

. . .

Sounds like God the Father had sex that produced Christ the Son.

. . .

The Virgin Mary and God the Father had sex that produce the Son Jesus Christ.

. . .

Sounds like God has sex with Mary and produced Jesus.

. . .

DLC

Words of DLClark all. Obsessed with "sex"? OBVIOUSLY!!!

A sex obsessed plagiarist. Go figure!

[jimg]

The Mormon doctrine of the Law of Eternal Progression disqualifies the Mormon Jesus from being the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus, as Momons teach, was a spirit being who became a man through God the Father having sex with Mary.

DLC

Your statement above confirms to me that you have little understanding of LDS teaching DL.

Jim in Texas

[jimg]

Joseph F. Smith made this comment. "Salvation is twofold: General- that which comes to all men irrespective of a belief (in this life) in Christ - and Individual - that which man merits through his own acts through life and by obedience to laws and ordinances of the gospel." D & S Vol. 1, p. 134.

Q. Have you done enough to merit God saving you, individual salvation?

DLC

Again, DL, you do not understand LDS teaching. You imply above that one's "works" can merit them salvation. Not so.

Salvation from the grave requires no merit on the part of the individual. As the scriptures state, "As in Adam all die, even so, in Christ shall all be made alive." Every person who has been born will receive a resurrection. This is the "free gift" mankind receives from Christ because of His grace.

That being "guaranteed", there is then a second part in addition to resurrection. This part is dependent upon one "doing something" to "merit" it. One must exercise faith in the promises of Christ, and like the men who were preached to by Peter on the day of Pentecost, one must repent of one's sins, and then be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost as a guide and teacher in one's life of learning the commandments and seeking to keep them. These are some of the things that one must do to "merit" personal salvation.

LDS do not see salvation as being instant as some do. LDS do not speak of being "saved" in a past tense. Salvation is something that one becomes aware of at their final judgment. If not, then why do the scriptures indicate that all will stand before the judgment bar of God and all will then receive their "reward" according to their works, be they "good" or "evil". The greatest of rewards is to receive eternal life.

Jim in Texas

[Tanyan]

DLC, please show in the BofM or The D+C where Salvation is "Merited" by anyone on an individual basis.

In His Debt/Grace

Tanyan, LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[DLClark]

DLC, please show in the BofM or The D+C where Salvation is "Merited" by anyone on an individual basis.

In His Debt/Grace

Tanyan, LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

First read Romans 11:6.

Rom 11:6

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

KJV

Rom 4:4-5

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

KJV

then read 2 Nephi 25:23. It says that we are saved by grace after all we can do. Sound like grace is merited by doing all you can do.

Q. Can you honestly say that you have done all that you can do to merit being saved by grace?

DLC

[Doctor Steuss]

[...]

then read 2 Nephi 25:23. It says that we are saved by grace after all we can do. Sound like grace is merited by doing all you can do.

Hi DLClark/ Lewis Chafer/producer of G-d

[Zakuska]

Q. Can you honestly say that you have done all that you can do to merit being saved by grace?

Enoch can...

Heb 11

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Jesus was born of the Father as a natural birth, Religious Truths Defined, p. 44 by J.F. Smith.

Is this false? Was Jesus born of the Father as a natrual birth? What part of this is false?

Bruce R. McConkie made this statement in Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pp. 546-547 that Jesus was born by an imortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten. Sounds like God the Father had sex that produced Christ the Son.

It does? So you don't think that Jesus was born by an immoratal Father? Did Christ not have a Father?

Here you go. The Virgin Mary and God the Father had sex that produce the Son Jesus Christ.

Orson Pratt in "The Seer," pg 158.

DLC

The seer pg 158? WEre did you get that from? FYI the Seer does not represent any form of offical doctrine. I have strong reservation about your claimed source any way.

Oh I see everybody as all ready rebutted you. And they did a grat job of it too.

[Tanyan]

First read Romans 11:6.

Rom 11:6

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

KJV

Rom 4:4-5

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

KJV

then read 2 Nephi 25:23. It says that we are saved by grace after all we can do. Sound like grace is merited by doing all you can do.

Q. Can you honestly say that you have done all that you can do to merit being saved by grace?

DLC

Once again DLC you are not getting it. The works that Paul is addressing are the Mosaic Law works , those do not Save anyone and this is a given by LDS. Your statement in response to my inquiry about a scripture in the LDS Canon showing that we "merit" salvation and your post and comments about 2 Nephi 25:23 is/are taken out of context. Try reading several verses before and after and you will see that it refers to the Law of Moses, and even for today as that scripture has been Christianized so as the "all we can do" is to have have Faith, Repent, and keep the 2 great commandments to access/activate/make alive the Blood Atonement Sacrifice of The LORD OF LIFE CHRIST JESUS. Once again please show anywhere in the BofM where the word "Merit" is used to desribe our own efforts are the only thing that gets us into Heaven. You need to access/activate/make alive Grace [charis] by way of Faith [pistis]. Try again. We are saved by Grace [charis] alone "through" Faith [pistis] alone, the qualifyer is an understanding of Faith {pistis] in the anchient old world in Biblical times.

In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan - LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[DLClark]

Hi DLClark/ Lewis Chafer/producer of G-d

[Vance]

Lets read the verse and take it at face value. 2 Nephi 25:23 says we are saved by grace AFTER all we can do.

Q. Are you then saved by grace after all you can do?[/ color]

DLC

Is this the best a sex obsessed plagiarist can come up with? This has been addressed for YOU several times. It makes one wonder about your ability to comprehend. Perhaps if you spend less time with your sex obsession and started using critical thinking, as opposed to just copying the work of others and claiming it as your own, you might, just might understand these very simple concepts.

You could start today. It would be good for you.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Lets read the verse and take it at face value. 2 Nephi 25:23 says we are saved by grace AFTER all we can do.

Q. Are you then saved by grace after all you can do?[/ color]

DLC

Uh gee... I dunno know.. a.. duh let me think about..... uh it. I uh.... think nooooo. Gee Bob.... aahh. what do you say.....?

What comment DLClark, you really out did yourself with thise question. I have know idea how to answer it. You really got us mormons on this one.

[Doctor Steuss]

Lets read the verse and take it at face value. 2 Nephi 25:23 says we are saved by grace AFTER all we can do.

Q. Are you then saved by grace after all you can do?[/ color]

DLC

Hi again DLClark/ Lewis Chafer/producer of G-d

[Tanyan]

Lets read the verse and take it at face value. 2 Nephi 25:23 says we are saved by grace AFTER all we can do.

Q. Are you then saved by grace after all you can do?[/ color]

DLC

Lets read the verse and take it at "context value" along with all of our true interpetation of that verse for you. Once again your not getting it . Try again In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan - LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[Tanyan]

Lets read the verse and take it at "context value" along with all of our true interpetation of that verse for you. Once again your not getting it . Try again In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan - LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

Just giving DLC another chance to get it right.

[DLClark]

Is this the best a sex obsessed plagiarist can come up with? This has been addressed for YOU several times. It makes one wonder about your ability to comprehend. Perhaps if you spend less time with your sex obsession and started using critical thinking, as opposed to just copying the work of others and claiming it as your own, you might, just might understand these very simple concepts.

You could start today. It would be good for you.

Our speech shows to other the contenet of our heart.

As a man thinkeht in heart so is he. Prov 23:7

7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

KJV

Titus 2:8

8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

KJV

Titus 2:7-8

7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

KJV

Works are not part of our salvation. Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

KJV

Rom 4:2-5

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.KJV

Rom 4:2-5

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

KJV

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,

KJV

2 Tim 1:9

who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

DLC

[Vance]

I accept every single verse you have posted. Not a single one of them is in conflict with my beliefs. So what is your point?

[Zakuska]

I don't vance... DLClark has removed them from Context.

Works are not part of our salvation. Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

KJV

Paul includes works in salvation in the next verse that DLCLARK conveinently left out.

Eph 2

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Pauls equation for salvation is:

Salvation = grace THROUGH faith FOR works

He also missed the fact that Obedience to Christ is a requirment of Salvation. If salvation were truley "grace alone" then there can be no conditions.

Heb 5

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Also notice this one...

Rom 4

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Before whom is Abrahams "Glorying" about good works performed? Men not God.

But before whom does Abrahams works Justify him?

James 1

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[DLClark]

I don't vance... DLClark has removed them from Context.

Paul includes works in salvation in the next verse that DLCLARK conveinently left out.

Eph 2

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Pauls equation for salvation is:

Salvation = grace THROUGH faith FOR works

He also missed the fact that Obedience to Christ is a requirment of Salvation. If salvation were truley "grace alone" then there can be no conditions.

Heb 5

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Also notice this one...

Rom 4

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Before whom is Abrahams "Glorying" about good works performed? Men not God.

But before whom does Abrahams works Justify him?

James 1

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

First context. In Eph 2 Paul said that we are dead because of our sins. Can a dead person do anything to make himself alive? NO. So God has to fix our deadness by making us alive, vv.4:7. TThat is salvation IS A GIFT TO US FROM GOD. He has done itall for us. That is why we are savedny unmeritedfavore/grace and not works. Verse v. 10 tells us why Godhas savedusthrough faith alone in Christ alone. We are unto good works. Works are the fruit of our salvation and never the means to being saved.

Eph 2:1-10

:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

KJV

DLC

[Tanyan]

DLC still not getting it !, the works that we do are not to Save us on our own merits but to to show that we want to stay in the covenant of JESUS CHRIST's Blood Sacrifice for us by way of walking in the light [No OSAS] After we have made Jesus Christ The LORD Of Our Life. We need to be in partnership with Jesus Christ and make his Rightiousness OUR Rightiousness.

In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan - LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[Doctor Steuss]

First context. In Eph 2 Paul said that we are dead because of our sins. Can a dead person do anything to make himself alive?

I reckon he could write some articles.

(Love you)

[Zakuska]

DLC still not getting it !, the works that we do are not to Save us on our own merits but to to show that we want to stay in the covenant of JESUS CHRIST's Blood Sacrifice for us [No OSAS]. We need to be in partnership with Jesus Christ and make his Rightiousness OUR Rightiousness.

In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan - LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

AMEN!

Just as I said... salvation = grace THROUGH faith FOR works

Grace ALONE saved no one

Faith ALONE saved no one

Works ALONE saved no one

It takes ALL three NONE of them being "ALONE".

As James said...

Can faith "ALONE" save? NO.

[Zakuska]

I reckon he could write some articles.

(Love you)

You Reckon right.

According to DLCLARKS interpretation these Gentiles shouldn't be able to do good works because they are dead not knowing the name of the Lord of life.

Romans 2

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

How are they able to keep Moses' law by NATURE?

[Doctor Steuss]

You Reckon right.

According to DLCLARKS interpretation these Gentiles shouldn't be able to do good works because they are dead not knowing the name of the Lord of life.

Romans 2

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

How are they able to keep Moses' law by NATURE?

Hi Zak,

While we're doing reckoning. I reckon my comment (based on your response) went over your head a bit. 'Tis ok. They can't all be home runs.