Where did Mosiah get his Urim and Thummim?

[Sevenbak]

This one has always been a wonderment to me. Anyone have any insight or statements made by brethren on the matter?

Is it possible that Moriancumr had them when he lived with the Mulekites for those few months? Or are these another set, completely different from what was given to the Brother of Jared, and passed down to Ether? If so, what happened to those?

Mosiah 8:

9 And for a testimony that the things that they had said are true they have brought twenty-four plates which are filled with engravings, and they are of pure gold.

10 And behold, also, they have brought breastplates, which are large, and they are of brass and of copper, and are perfectly sound.

11 And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust; and there is no one in the land that is able to interpret the language or the engravings that are on the plates. Therefore I said unto thee: Canst thou translate?

12 And I say unto thee again: Knowest thou of any one that can translate? For I am desirous that these records should be translated into our language; for, perhaps, they will give us a knowledge of a remnant of the people who have been destroyed, from whence these records came; or, perhaps, they will give us a knowledge of this very people who have been destroyed; and I am desirous to know the cause of their destruction.

13 Now Ammon said unto him: I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift from God. And the things are called interpreters, and no man can look in them except he be commanded, lest he should look for that he ought not and he should perish. And whosoever is commanded to look in them, the same is called cseer.

14 And behold, the king of the people who are in the land of Zarahemla is the man that is commanded to do these things, and who has this high gift from God.

[David T]

I think when God raises up a seer, he uses materials the individual has access to as his devices. Example: Joseph of Egypt's silver cup, Joseph Smith's seer stone.

[Sevenbak]

I think when God raises up a seer, he uses materials the individual has access to as his devices. Example: Joseph of Egypt's silver cup, Joseph Smith's seer stone.

I agree with that. Alma mentions that Lord preparing a stone for Gazelem. I'm assuming he was another prophet or king not mentioned in the text, or that's the name of the stone or interpreters.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/37/21-25

[Brant Gardner]

There are two possibilities. First, he received them through the Zarahemla king who had them from Coriantumr. The second, is that he simply had other means. If this story takes place in Mesoamerica (for which I believe there is reasonable evidence) then having a means of communication would not have been unusual. Among perhaps other methods, many areas have concave obsidian "mirrors" that were probably used for such functions.

I admit, that I have held the first position at times. I am now more open to the second, but since there is no way to know I will remain undecided.

[David T]

I agree with that. Alma mentions that Lord preparing a stone for Gazelem. I'm assuming he was another prophet or king not mentioned in the text, or that's the name of the stone or interpreters.

http://scriptures.ld...n/alma/37/21-25

I tend to think of Gazelem as a term interpreted as stone, and not a name. Just add in parentheses:

And the Lord said: I will prepare unto my servant gazelem (a stone) which shall shine forth in darkness unto light,

[Sevenbak]

I tend to think of Gazelem as a term interpreted as stone, and not a name. Just add in parentheses:

And the Lord said: I will prepare unto my servant gazelem (a stone) which shall shine forth in darkness unto light,

I think it might be a title for a seer. Joseph was called Gazelam early on I believe. At any rate, it would seem that Mosiah didn't have the same type of interpreters as Ether did, the ones in the silver bow. So where did Mormon / Moroni get them?

I still envision Ether's "cavity of a rock" as being the same cave in Cumorah / Ramah. If Ether hid up his stuff there, it makes sense that Mormon would have access to them.

[Brant Gardner]

I still envision Ether's "cavity of a rock" as being the same cave in Cumorah / Ramah. If Ether hid up his stuff there, it makes sense that Mormon would have access to them.

Ether hid there and witnessed the destruction of his people. Since he witnessed, but did not participate in, the destruction at Ramah, the cavity of a rock was probably nearby (close enough to either see, or to go out at night to see) Ramah.

[Sevenbak]

Ether hid there and witnessed the destruction of his people. Since he witnessed, but did not participate in, the destruction at Ramah, the cavity of a rock was probably nearby (close enough to either see, or to go out at night to see) Ramah.

That's how I read it as well. It makes sense to me that Ether his up Millennia of sacred records and relics for future generations, as did Mormon.

I don't think Cumorah's cave holds only the Nephite relics. I think there was a reason Mormon gathered his people there.

[Avatar4321]

He has the Brother of Jared's through Coriantumr

[Sevenbak]

He has the Brother of Jared's through Coriantumr

Possibly, it would make sense. But why would Coriantumr have it, given that Ether was the prophet and Coriantumr was wicked, and the Lord specifically say that only the righteous can have it.

And to follow that same thought, if Ether gave Coriantumr the U&T to give to the Mulekites, why didn't he give them the records as well? The two go together. It's not like Coriantumr had any need for gold, being alone.

[notHagoth7]

Possibly, it would make sense. But why would Coriantumr have it, given that Ether was the prophet...and the Lord specifically say that only the righteous can have it.

And to follow that same thought, if Ether gave Coriantumr the U&T...

So question being, what became of Ether?

[Sevenbak]

So question being, what became of Ether?

Ether 15: 34 Now the last words which are written by Ether are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am saved in the kingdom of God. Amen.

Looks like he disappeared into the... ether...