A Challenge to Critics

[Luigi]

Speculation as to what people believed or didn't believe is interesting but not really substantive to whether the BoM is what Joseph Smith or others claimed. The main issue is that the reason most believers give for accepting the BoM as true is spiritual and from both observation and personal experience I consider such evidence to be unreliable. As to other evidence for the BoM I would be skeptic of the witness of 11 close associates on any phenomenon for which evidence is scarce-whether it be aliens, bigfoot, or any other such being or object whose existence is highly questionable. As to the logistics of how Joseph Smith and/or others would have gone about creating the fraud of the BoM that is again a matter of personal interest (and I certainly think one that is worth engaging for interest sake) but has relatively little pertinence to the legitimacy of the BoM claims. The main point is that the BoM lacks sufficient corresponding archeological evidence of ancient origins and the means by which it is purported to be translated has not been demonstrated by repeated efforts to be reliable (and in fact the translation efforts on the BoA fascimiles by Joseph Smith add even more doubt to his alleged abilities). Consequently it's authorship or acceptance by those involved in it's production and surrounding events is relatively unimportant for determining whether the BoM is what it claims.

[Mortal Man]

The only problem being, is that there is no mention of a "urim and thummim" in any

of the early Mormon documents, correspondence, news reports, etc.

No mention in the Book of Commandments. No mention in the Book of Mormon.

What are mentioned in the pre-1835 sources are: "interpreters, directors," and "spectacles."

So, while Ethan Smith spoke of American Indian magic men having breastplates and some

accouterments resembling Israelite oracular devices, Ethan's descriptions seem to have

had no direct effect upon Mormonism -- or, at least no documented effect prior to 1835.

Are you saying that the U&T references in D&C 10:1 & 17:1 were added after 1835?

Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, in the summer of 1828.

1. Now, behold, I say unto you, that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim, into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them.

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet to Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris, at Fayette, New York, June 1829, prior to their viewing the engraved plates that contained the Book of Mormon record.

1. Behold, I say unto you, that you must rely upon my word, which if you do with full purpose of heart, you shall have a view of the plates, and also of the breastplate, the sword of Laban, the Urim and Thummim, which were given to the brother of Jared upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face, and the miraculous directors which were given to Lehi while in the wilderness, on the borders of the Red Sea.

[Mortal Man]

I didn't make the OP.

I'll agree with you here. Although, in the future, I reserve the right to interchange you and JA at will.

What mental gymnastics have I been engaging in regarding the BoA?

By "you" I meant "everybody but you."

[cinepro]

I never pass up a chance to play Devil's Avocado:

1. Did Joseph Smith believe that he had visions and revelations or was he lying?

He believed it.

2. Did the Smith family believe in the authenticity of Josephâ??s visions or were they lying?

They believed it.

3. Did Emma Smith believe in the authenticity of Josephâ??s visions or was she lying?

She believed some, but not others.

4. Did Oliver Cowdery believe in the authenticity of Josephâ??s visions and the Book of Mormon translation or was he lying?

He believed many things, but not others.

5. Did Martin Harris believe in the authenticity of Josephâ??s visions and the Book of Mormon translation or was he lying?

Martin Harris believed anything.

6. Did Joseph Smith construct or acquire something that resembled gold plates?

a. If so, how was this accomplished?

Probably. I don't know. Perhaps he used methods similar to James Strang, the Kinderhook guys, or FARMS in constructing fake plates. Or some other method.

b. Did the Three Witnesses actually handle something that they believed were the plates?

Probably.

c. Did the Eight Witnesses actually handle something that they believed were the plates?

Probably.

7. Did Joseph Smith construct or acquire something that resembled what he described as a Urim and Thummim and breastplate?

I don't know.

b. If so, why did he only show them briefly to a few and then dispose of them?

Good question.

c. If not, was Lucy Smith lying or deluded when she claimed to have seen and handled them? If deluded, how was this accomplished, considering the detail in which she described them?

At that point in her life, probably deluded.

8. Were the Three Witnesses lying or deluded when they claimed to have seen the vision of the angel who showed them the plates and Nephite artifacts?

As with many people who see such things, what they actually saw might not have been what they thought they saw.

If deluded, how was this accomplished?

Probably the same as happens in other similar situations (suggestion, peer pressure, being told they're "unworthy" if they can't see it, having everyone commit to a common description of the event instead of allowing them to each explain their own experience.) You know, the usual.

d. What do you credit the conviction that they spoke of the experience with throughout their lives?

Because they really, really believe it.

9. Who (if anyone), besides Joseph Smith, contributed to the Book of Mormon?

I don't know.

b. Did the traditional accounts of translation with Joseph using a seer-stone and dictating a scribe take place?

Probably.

10. Did Joseph Smith have written sources present during the Book of Mormon dictation?

Probably at least a Bible.

i. If so, why do you think they lied about it?

The eyewitness accounts that we have that describe the process may not apply to the portions of the dictation that used additional sources.

b. If so, what sources might he have used?

Probably at least a Bible.

11. If others beside Joseph Smith contributed to the Book of Mormon and/or if written sources were used, how do you think this was accomplished?

I don't know.

[Uncle Dale]

Are you saying that the U&T references in D&C 10:1 & 17:1 were added after 1835?

Read for yourself --

http://boc.lege.net/boc9.html

Or, better yet, Google Books has images of

the 1833 Book of Commandments on-line.

See also H. Michael Marquardt's "The Joseph Smith Revelations" --

excerpts available at Signature Books -- for annotated commentary.

UD

[Mortal Man]

I would be skeptic of the witness of 11 close associates on any phenomenon for which evidence is scarce

Mark Twain, Roughing It Chapter XVI

"Some people have to have a world of evidence before they can come

anywhere in the neighborhood of believing anything; but for me, when a

man tells me that he has "seen the engravings which are upon the plates,"

and not only that, but an angel was there at the time, and saw him see

them, and probably took his receipt for it, I am very far on the road to

conviction, no matter whether I ever heard of that man before or not, and

even if I do not know the name of the angel, or his nationality either.

...

And when I am far on the road to conviction, and eight men, be they

grammatical or otherwise, come forward and tell me that they have seen

the plates too; and not only seen those plates but "hefted" them, I am

convinced. I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire

Whitmer family had testified."

[Mortal Man]

Read for yourself --

http://boc.lege.net/boc9.html

Or, better yet, Google Books has images of

the 1833 Book of Commandments on-line.

See also H. Michael Marquardt's "The Joseph Smith Revelations" --

excerpts available at Signature Books -- for annotated commentary.

Interesting.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[ttribe]

I'll agree with you here. Although, in the future, I reserve the right to interchange you and JA at will.

That was pretty good...keep in mind, he's 19 and I'm 37...but look 19. I can see how that might happen.

By "you" I meant "everybody but you."

I'm not saying I don't engage in some mental gymnastics on the topic...I was just curious which ones you think I engage in.

[SilverKnight]

Astounding!

And all this time I had assumed this Joseph Smith was merely an inspired religious reformer, alleged by LDS to be a prophet of sorts. The mormon account falls utterly short in describing perhaps the most brilliant genius who ever lived.

Now history has produced but a handful of truly exceptional polymaths. Leonardo Da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin, Isaac Newton.

However no person in recorded history can even approach the vast, nuanced, multilayered genius of a 19th century American farmhand named Joseph Smith. By the tender age of 25 Joseph Smith had simply outclassed any previous genius in history by leagues.

Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You claim, despite spending his prior life to that point plowing dirt and chopping wood, Joseph Smith had become:

- A brilliant svengali, capable of deluding wealthy, educated men much older than himself into believing anything

- A legendary hypnotist, capable of invoking mass hallucinations in others at a whim

- A master metallurgist, fabricating ancient-looking metal plates out of tin and copper

- A genius-savant mentalist, capable memorizing vast sections of the Bible and other complex texts

- A formidable demagogue, commanding superhuman secrecy from all involved in the conspiracy for their entire lives

- A sincerely pious believer, who not once lapsed in his sincerity towards his own deceptions

- An insidious con-man, crafting intricate props, manipulating friends and family and fooling thousands

- A fantastic storyteller, who could on a whim weave hundred page narratives from scratch

- A dextrous legerdemain, who deftly concealed piles of notes and source materials from nearby scribes

- A connected bibliophile, secretly obtaining obscure texts from faraway universities to use as source material

AND, despite pulling off the most breathtaking, monstrous, labyrinthine fraud in the history of humanity, not a single dupe, mark, former ally, co-conspirator or serendipitous passerby has ever emerged to offer any shred of insight of how this immense conspiracy might have possibly been pulled off?

And the mastermind behind it all was an indigent plowboy? I'm sorry gentlemen, your story simply strains credulity too much. I'll have to default back to the whole prophet theory. (Occam's Razor you know)

[ttribe]

Astounding!

And all this time I had assumed this Joseph Smith was merely an inspired religious reformer, alleged by LDS to be a prophet of sorts. The mormon account falls utterly short in describing perhaps the most brilliant genius who ever lived.

Now history has produced but a handful of truly exceptional polymaths. Leonardo Da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin, Isaac Newton.

However no person in recorded history can even approach the vast, nuanced, multilayered genius of a 19th century American farmhand named Joseph Smith. By the tender age of 25 Joseph Smith had simply outclassed any previous genius in history by leagues.

Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You claim, despite spending his prior life to that point plowing dirt and chopping wood, Joseph Smith had become:

- A brilliant svengali, capable of deluding wealthy, educated men much older than himself into believing anything

- A legendary hypnotist, capable of invoking mass hallucinations in others at a whim

- A master metallurgist, fabricating ancient-looking metal plates out of tin and copper

- A genius-savant mentalist, capable memorizing vast sections of the Bible and other complex texts

- A formidable demagogue, commanding superhuman secrecy from all involved in the conspiracy for their entire lives

- A sincerely pious believer, who not once lapsed in his sincerity towards his own deceptions

- An insidious con-man, crafting intricate props, manipulating friends and family and fooling thousands

- A fantastic storyteller, who could on a whim weave hundred page narratives from scratch

- A dextrous legerdemain, who deftly concealed piles of notes and source materials from nearby scribes

- A connected bibliophile, secretly obtaining obscure texts from faraway universities to use as source material

AND, despite pulling off the most breathtaking, monstrous, labyrinthine fraud in the history of humanity, not a single dupe, mark, former ally, co-conspirator or serendipitous passerby has ever emerged to offer any shred of insight of how this immense conspiracy might have possibly been pulled off?

And the mastermind behind it all was an indigent plowboy? I'm sorry gentlemen, your story simply strains credulity too much. I'll have to default back to the whole prophet theory. (Occam's Razor you know)

Outstanding!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

AND, despite pulling off the most breathtaking, monstrous, labyrinthine fraud in the history of humanity, not a single dupe, mark, former ally, co-conspirator or serendipitous passerby has ever emerged to offer any shred of insight of how this immense conspiracy might have possibly been pulled off?

And the mastermind behind it all was an indigent plowboy? I'm sorry gentlemen, your story simply strains credulity too much. I'll have to default back to the whole prophet theory. (Occam's Razor you know)

Which is why I think many of the supposed stories have more holes than swiss cheese. I think some one has been spending more time in the sand then David Hasselhoff.

Sorry I couldn't resist the lame jokes.

[Mike Reed]

I think some plates were constructed -- probably using materials available

in the Smiths' cooper shop -- possibly incorporating a few copper engraving

plates, polished up to resemble gold. If this actually happened, I suppose that

only Smith and Cowdery knew the secret. And even the two of them may have

thought it a necessary "prop," and that their intended "ends" justified the "means."

That seems quite possible. The theory that I favor is that Smith actually had Masonic props.

[Abulafia]

Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You claim, despite spending his prior life to that point plowing dirt and chopping wood, Joseph Smith had become:

Hi Silverknight, I'm not sure that description adequately describes Joseph's youth, though I am sure it was a part of it.

- A brilliant svengali, capable of deluding wealthy, educated men much older than himself into believing anything

If you changed that to a brilliant man capable of persuading wealthy, educated men much older than himself, with the help of others, into believing something quite specific actually, I could probably agree.

- A legendary hypnotist, capable of invoking mass hallucinations in others at a whim

If you dropped the legendary, and added was capable of using hypnotic techniques to invoke hallucinations on specific occassions, I might agree.

- A master metallurgist, fabricating ancient-looking metal plates out of tin and copper

If you had said that he was able to utilise skilled people around him I might agree.

- A genius-savant mentalist, capable memorizing vast sections of the Bible and other complex texts

If you had said a young man with a superior memory that he was able to utilise to good effect when occassion demanded I might agree.

- A formidable demagogue, commanding superhuman secrecy from all involved in the conspiracy for their entire lives

If you had missed out the formidable and the superhuman and missed off entire I might be able to agree.

- A sincerely pious believer, who not once lapsed in his sincerity towards his own deceptions

Agreed.

- An insidious con-man, crafting intricate props, manipulating friends and family and fooling thousands

If you had missed out insidious and included visionary or the less emotive confidence man, and had used persuaded rather than manipulating, and convincing rather than fooling, I might agree.

- A fantastic storyteller, who could on a whim weave hundred page narratives from scratch

Not sure about 100 page narratives in 'one' go, but a fantastic storyteller yes, as his mother attested.

- A dextrous legerdemain, who deftly concealed piles of notes and source materials from nearby scribes

Not sure about that one, but he was able to conceal the plates quite well, and was successful in convincing others that it wasn't God's will for them to look at them.

- A connected bibliophile, secretly obtaining obscure texts from faraway universities to use as source material

I think he absolutely loved learning, and I think that a number of texts and peoples with diverse ideas were available to him.

[Luigi]

- A brilliant svengali, capable of deluding wealthy, educated men much older than himself into believing anything

How many of the rich and powerful have been attracted by the poorly educated psychic? Edgard Cayce, for example, attracted the attention of US Presidents with his entranced 'readings'.

- A legendary hypnotist, capable of invoking mass hallucinations in others at a whim

Mass hallucinations is one thing-the power of suggestion coupled with a belief in 'spiritual vision' is another.

- A master metallurgist, fabricating ancient-looking metal plates out of tin and copper

I don't think he fabricated full plates

- A genius-savant mentalist, capable memorizing vast sections of the Bible and other complex texts

Of memorizing short sections and making up the rest, yes. He didn't 'translate' exclusively from the hat-he also, as I recall, dictated from other rooms or behind a sheet-thus facilitating easy access to a Bible while out of the sight of others.

- A formidable demagogue, commanding superhuman secrecy from all involved in the conspiracy for their entire lives

This assumes multiple co-conspirators but most theories have only a few and some only have Joseph.

- A sincerely pious believer, who not once lapsed in his sincerity towards his own deceptions

- An insidious con-man, crafting intricate props, manipulating friends and family and fooling thousands

Many scammers begin to develop a sincerity towards their deception and don't let on to others what is going on. I just watched a documentary on a man who ran a multi-million dollar Ponzi scheme (not Madoff-another one) and he had started out making legitimate investments and kept telling himself he'd pay the money back. He told no one-even his family-and in fact no one found out until people started calling for their balances to be paid.

Fraud in general has been done by many others on numerous occasions-and with far more followers than Smith attracted.

- A fantastic storyteller, who could on a whim weave hundred page narratives from scratch

Now being a storyteller is miraculous?

- A dextrous legerdemain, who deftly concealed piles of notes and source materials from nearby scribes

- A connected bibliophile, secretly obtaining obscure texts from faraway universities to use as source material

Of all the descriptions of the BoM I can think of 'well-researched' is not one that comes to mind.

AND, despite pulling off the most breathtaking, monstrous, labyrinthine fraud in the history of humanity, not a single dupe, mark, former ally, co-conspirator or serendipitous passerby has ever emerged to offer any shred of insight of how this immense conspiracy might have possibly been pulled off?

Most breathtaking? How so? As far as religious movements go the membership numbers of the Church are not incredibly impressive (especially when one considers the unreliable nature of total membership statistics).

[ttribe]

Many scammers begin to develop a sincerity towards their deception and don't let on to others what is going on. I just watched a documentary on a man who ran a multi-million dollar Ponzi scheme (not Madoff-another one) and he had started out making legitimate investments and kept telling himself he'd pay the money back. He told no one-even his family-and in fact no one found out until people started calling for their balances to be paid.

That's not uncommon. The ability to rationalize is one of the key elements of fraud, the other two being incentive/pressure and opportunity. Can you elaborate on how it is that you think JS was following that pattern here?

Fraud in general has been done by many others on numerous occasions-and with far more followers than Smith attracted.

Care to come up with an example?

Now being a storyteller is miraculous?

No, but the confluence of all these characteristics sure would be unique.

Of all the descriptions of the BoM I can think of 'well-researched' is not one that comes to mind.

Please.

Most breathtaking? How so? As far as religious movements go the membership numbers of the Church are not incredibly impressive (especially when one considers the unreliable nature of total membership statistics).

Couldn't resist the chance to take another shot at one of your pet peeves?

[Uncle Dale]

...were Masonic props.

Ah! Tell me it ain't so!

UD

[Luigi]

That's not uncommon. The ability to rationalize is one of the key elements of fraud, the other two being incentive/pressure and opportunity. Can you elaborate on how it is that you think JS was following that pattern here?

I don't see how elaboration on that point is necessary. The main point is that those who defraud others often rationalize their actions and keep their actions to themselves-I can't read the mind of Joseph Smith on the particulars of how he might have justified his own fraud and/or how sincere he was in perpetuating it.

Care to come up with an example?

Well as an atheist I believe all religion is logically indefensible and consequently is all fraud-so pick any religion and you have an example.

No, but the confluence of all these characteristics sure would be unique.

I don't know-it would seem those that start a religion or pseudoscience employ similar practices-including elaborate stories.

Couldn't resist the chance to take another shot at one of your pet peeves?

I actually thought it was a very pertinent point since the way statistics are tracked is essential to comparing religious movements. Jehovah Witnesses, for example, appear to have half the number of members of the LDS Church by their official statistics until one finds out that Jehovah Witnesses only count active members-then it would seem their religious movement probably matches or exceeds the LDS Church in numbers.

[ttribe]

I don't see how elaboration on that point is necessary. The main point is that those who defraud others often rationalize their actions and keep their actions to themselves-I can't read the mind of Joseph Smith on the particulars of how he might have justified his own fraud and/or how sincere he was in perpetuating it.

You made the comparison. Simply asking for support for the assertion.

Well as an atheist I believe all religion is logically indefensible and consequently is all fraud-so pick any religion and you have an example.

Then let's draw from the known-fraud file? Can you come up with anything comparable? Pay special attention to one that outlives its founder.

I don't know-it would seem those that start a religion or pseudoscience employ similar practices-including elaborate stories.

And yet, I think Silverknight has demonstrated that the list would have to be rather extraordinary, at least.

I actually thought it was a very pertinent point since the way statistics are tracked is essential to comparing religious movements. Jehovah Witnesses, for example, appear to have half the number of members of the LDS Church by their official statistics until one finds out that Jehovah Witnesses only count active members-then it would seem their religious movement probably matches or exceeds the LDS Church in numbers.

I'm sure you did think it was pertinent. Presumably, virtually any negative innuendo or conjecture is pertinent to an evaluation of the LDS Church; just not anything that might actually support its claims.

[Corky Wallace]

Those of us who actually believe JS was a prophet get accused of engaging in "mental gymnastics" to justify our belief...some of the explanations in this thread by the critics are downright gold medal worthy. Interesting dynamic in play here.

Very true. I suppose from an objective standpoint it boils down to an evaluation of plausibilities. How plausible is it that Joseph made some plates from tin or steel vs how plausible it is that he translated past an Egyption book of breathings to something quite different in the papyrii displayed.

IMO, Occams Razor is more charitable to the critics' position, overall.

[SilverKnight]

If you dropped the legendary, and added was capable of using hypnotic techniques to invoke hallucinations on specific occassions, I might agree.

Just so you know, when a critic starts to claim the mass visions were a result a JS hypnosis skills you have "jumped the shark" as we yankees say. The idea that JS knew how to hypnotize whole groups on demand with congruous identical visions that were never doubted for the remainder of the participants lives is perfectly ridiculous

If you had said that he was able to utilise skilled people around him I might agree.

So his secret metal-smelting friends and their hidden forge was the culprit?

Of all the descriptions of the BoM I can think of 'well-researched' is not one that comes to mind.

What?! Perhaps you should have thought a second before you typed that. Even your fellow critics concede the BoM is a genius-level synthesis of religious concepts, language patterns and biblical themes.

Most breathtaking? How so? As far as religious movements go the membership numbers of the Church are not incredibly impressive (especially when one considers the unreliable nature of total membership statistics).

Not incredibly impressive that in 200 years 12 million believers, new volumes of scripture, and a radically elegant new religious cosmology that has been called "the 4th Abrahamic Faith" came from a 19th century frontier hoax perpetuated by a 25 year old plowhand?

[SilverKnight]

Dan Peterson's "The Protean Joseph Smith" and "Divine Source of the Book of Mormon" are especially appropriate for this thread.

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/20...seph_Smith.html

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/20...e_Theories.html

Before any Fraud-Hoax-Conspiracy adherents get too far along please read it.

[ttribe]

Very true. I suppose from an objective standpoint it boils down to an evaluation of plausibilities. How plausible is it that Joseph made some plates from tin or steel vs how plausible it is that he translated past an Egyption book of breathings to something quite different in the papyrii displayed.

At least as plausible as turning water into wine, walking on water, parting the red sea, a talking donkey, people turned into pillars of salt, etc. All of which you may or may not believe in.

IMO, Occams Razor is more charitable to the critics' position, overall.

Since Occams Razor seems to rely on strict interpretations of rationality, it seems to be an artifact of the approach that the "miraculous" would be rejected.

[Corky Wallace]

At least as plausible as turning water into wine, walking on water, parting the red sea, a talking donkey, people turned into pillars of salt, etc. All of which you may or may not believe in.

Since Occams Razor seems to rely on strict interpretations of rationality, it seems to be an artifact of the approach that the "miraculous" would be rejected.

So critics are confined to lock-down, tightly scrutinized assessment of plausibility, but believers can expand into the supernatural & miraculous?

On which I think we can agree: the faith/reason conundrum is complex & ever escapes comprehensive understanding. (I have my own faith, quite distinct from the hardened atheists. I'm not trying to knock anyone off theirs... as though that could happen with this collection of hard-nosed debaters!)

[ttribe]

So critics are confined to lock-down, tightly scrutinized assessment of plausibility, but believers can expand into the supernatural & miraculous?

On which I think we can agree: the faith/reason conundrum is complex & ever escapes comprehensive understanding. (I have my own faith, quite distinct from the hardened atheists. I'm not trying to knock anyone off theirs... as though that could happen with this collection of hard-nosed debaters!)

It seems to be a restriction of their own making, IMO.

[DrW]

In inviting critics to respond to his questions, JA stipulates that there are no to be supernatural forces at work, with the unstated assumption that if the critics could not provide suitable answers for each detailed question, then the only alternative would be to assume the supernatural, and the argument would be won.

If the critics are willing to enter an improperly and unfairly framed debate, fair enough. Several critics or individuals willing to be devilâ??s advocate jumped in and the discussion was off. Fun was being had by all until Silver Knight invoked Occamâ??s Razor in rejecting one set of his straw man hypotheses in favor of a set which, by implication, required the supernatural.

By invoking Occamâ??s razor, SK indicated that he believed himself to be properly applying rules of formal logic. He was not. This is because one or more of the alternative set of hypotheses that he selected by implication (by rejecting the straw man set) required the supernatural. These supernatural force-requiring hypotheses are not valid hypotheses because they are not (or would not be) falsifiable, and therefore not testable.

Invoking formal logic to argue for hypotheses that require supernatural force (magic) is not a valid use of this approach. This is because formal logic, as used to test among possible alternative hypotheses, cannot be applied to, and therefore does not allow for, the supernatural.

To be properly constructed and testable, a hypothesis must be falsifiable. At least one, and probably all, of the alternative hypotheses implied by SKâ??s straw man assertions (or by the implied alternatives to JAâ??s original questions) are not falsifiable because they invoke the supernatural.

For example:

Q. Did Joseph Smith construct or acquire something that resembled gold plates?

A. Yes

Q. If so, how was this accomplished?

A. Do not know / Not sure

Implied conclusion: The best explanation for existence of something that resembled the plates is that there were golden plates (the supernatural explanation).

However, if the conclusion is then submitted to further testing, we see that it is not falsifiable and therefore unverifiable, and invalid.

Perhaps we can re-frame the debate by generating and testing falsifiable hypotheses and alternative hypotheses, and their corollaries.

The question at the heart of the matter has been posed by Luigi. That question is whether or not the Book of Mormon came about as Joseph Smith claimed, and is therefore what Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church claim it to be.

To properly use Occamâ??s razor, valid hypotheses must be first constructed and tested. This is not to imply that there is only one set of testable hypotheses, but to arrive at a valid conclusion, any hypotheses tested must be properly constructed.

Here are two sets of valid hypotheses:

Set #1

Hypothesis I:

The Book of Mormon came about as Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church claim in that it was a translation, by Joseph Smith, of an ancient record written and left by one or more (literate) populations of â??Hebrewâ? origin, who originally left Jerusalem and arrived in the Western Hemisphere by means of at least two separate transoceanic migrations.

Corollary:

The Book of Mormon is therefore a reasonably accurate history of the principal inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere that populated the western hemisphere from approximately 2500 BC to approximately 421 AD, and numbered in excess of one million people during the time frame in question.

Alternative Hypothesis I:

Joseph Smith and others fabricated the story of the origin of the Book of Mormon, and generated the text of the Book of Mormon from their own imaginations and various other sources, including the Bible, and / or the Spaulding Manuscripts, and / or the View of the Hebrews, and / or other sources.

Corollary:

The Book of Mormon is not a history of any group of people whatsoever, and therefore no credible, verifiable physical evidence of the people and events described in the Book of Mormon exists.

Set # 2

Hypotheses II:

The history and culture of the principal populations of the Western Hemisphere between approximately 2500 BC and approximately 421 AD, and more specifically between approximately 600 BC and approximately 421 AD, are substantially as indicated by the results from decades of research carried out mainly over the last 60 years by qualified archeologists, geologists, anthropologists, ethnologists and linguists, and supported by contemporary written records of the said native populations as engraved on stone, wood, and depicted in codices.

Alternative Hypothesis II:

The history and culture of the principal populations of the Western Hemisphere between approximately 2500 BC and approximately 421 AD, and more specifically between approximately 600 BC and approximately 421 AD, are substantially as described by an uneducated farm boy who lived in the Eastern United States in the first half of the 19th century and generated said description by translation of ancient records for which there is no existing physical evidence, said translation being carried by the process of placing his face in a hat containing a peepstone, and dictating from text that appeared on said stone, during which time the ancient records in question were out sight being either covered with a cloth in the same room, or in another room, or altogether outside of the dwelling the translation was being carried out.

Turning to the first set of hypotheses, we consider the weight of physical evidence for Hypothesis I and its Corollary. Unfortunately, there is very little independently verifiable physical evidence to be weighed. There are no golden plates; there is no Urim and Thummim, and there is no breastplate. What we do have is an unremarkable rock reportedly used by Joseph Smith as a peep stone, and written statements by a number of individuals involved in generating the Book of Mormon and family members of these individuals.

One might claim that the Book of Mormon itself is evidence, but this evidence is better evaluated by considering the corollary to the hypothesis. In evaluating evidence for the corollary to the hypothesis, we find that there is none.

Turning to the Alternative Hypothesis I, we find that there is substantial verifiable evidence to support it.

That is, there is substantial written and other physical evidence, for example, that Joseph Smith had no ability to even recognize, let alone translate, ancient languages. Such evidence comes from Joseph Smithâ??s journal regarding the fraudulent Kinderhook plates and the actual plates themselves. Joseph Smith claimed common Egyptian funerary papyri to be a document written by the hand of Abraham. He subsequently provided a claimed translation of papyri, said translation bearing no resemblance whatsoever to the actual papyri text as translated by any number of qualified Egyptologists. Joseph Smith claimed that he had the capability to translate a language he referred to as "Reformed Egyptian", and provided an example of text from the purported language, written by his own hand, to third parties for review. There is no independant verifiable evidence whatsoever that any language such "Reformed Egyptian" ever existed, and the sample text provided has been shown to be derived from sets of symbols used in various languages to which Joseph Smith has access. The text provided by Smith has not been translated to date (not even by Smith) and is now universally held by qualified non-Mormon linguists to have been completely fabricated by Smith.

Recently published peer reviewed research by Stanford University [ML Jockers et al (2008)

Reassessing authorship of the Book of Mormon using delta and nearest shrunken centroid classification]

shows that Sidney Ridgon and Oliver Cowdery were the most probable authors of substantial sections of the Book of Mormon.

There is clear evidence that parts of the Book of Mormon were plagiarized directly from the King James Version of the Bible, a document not yet in existence when the corresponding Book of Mormon passages were claimed to have been originally written.

In evaluating the Corollary to the Alternative Hypothesis I, we find substantial support as well. That is, no credible physical evidence for any of the events described in the Book of Mormon has been found.

Furthermore, the genome of claimed descendants of the original migrant populations, the Native Americans, contains no â??Hebrewâ? DNA.

Based on weight of evidence, we must select of the Alternative Hypothesis I as the best hypothesis.

Nonetheless, since the issue of Occamâ??s Razor has been raised, letâ??s assume that the weight of evidence for the two hypotheses is not decisive (as active Mormons are wont to do). That is, let's assume that they have nearly equal probability of being valid, or "true".

We can then apply the principle of Occam's Razor, which states that the best hypothesis among nearly equally probable hypotheses is that which requires the fewest assumptions or contingencies in order to be valid. We can apply Occamâ??s Razor to hypothesis Set #1 or Set# 2. The result is the same.

Hypothesis I requires dozens, if not hundreds, of assumptions to account for extremely low probability claims in the Book of Mormon, among them the following:

Somewhere between 3000 BC and 2500 BC, a group of more than 20 individuals built eight watertight wooden barges, loaded them with live animals, as well as sufficient provisions for 344 days and used them to travel, without power, in a group, from the Easter Hemisphere to the New World in 344 days.

Another group left Jerusalem shortly after about 600 BC and made a similar transoceanic crossing in a self made boat.

These newly seeded populations flourished in the new world, eventually numbering more than a million individuals, and then managed to disappear without leaving any archeological or DNA trace, whatsoever, of their existence.

There are dozens more similarly low probability contingencies, but the idea is clear.

Alternative Hypothesis I requires exactly one assumption. That is, that the Book of Mormon was fabricated, from human imagination and existing documents by some combination of Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery and others (an assumption for which there is substantial, objective, peer reviewed physical evidence.)

We can also test the second set of hypotheses.

There is a massive amount of physical evidence supporting Hypothesis II, including, most importantly, independently verifiable contemporary written records from literate populations of the period in question.

As described above, there is no evidence to support Alternative Hypothesis II.

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ETA: Thus, by the criteria of both weight of evidence and Occam's Razor, evaluation of the first sets of hypotheses shows that the hypothesis that Joseph Smith and/or others fabricated the Book of Mormon (Alternative Hypothesis I) is the best hypothesis. This hypothesis selection is further supported by fact that the assertion that Joseph Smith and/or others fabricated the Book of Mormon (Alternative Hypothesis II) is the best hypothesis by weight of evidence from Set # 2.