Gen. 28:12 & John 1:51 Son of Man = Jacob's Ladder?

[baddonkey]

Gen. 28: 12

12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

John 1: 51

51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Does the second scripture above equate Jesus with the ladder in the first one, or does it just mean he will be visited by angels?

[Zakuska]

Get the whole dream...

Gen 12

10

[Bill Hamblin]

Does the second scripture above equate Jesus with the ladder in the first one, or does it just mean he will be visited by angels?

Jesus is equated with the Lord standing at the top of the stairway.

[mfbukowski]

Jesus is equated with the Lord standing at the top of the stairway.

Another "rising from the dust" reference.

Ok, I'll say it anyway:

Guided evolution into Godhood?

[J Green]

This is part of a larger temple setting where Yhwh is the keeper of the gate. The High Priest (as his earthly representative) and Levites generally also took part in this function. Much of the presentation for sacrifice took place in front of the HP at the door of the temple (doors and gates are common symbols translated from key words such as deleth, pechath, and sha'ar). Psalms 15, 24, and 51 are generally associated with a conciliation rite that takes place at the gate/door (see 24:3). The HP on the Day of Atonement placed lots on the two goats presented to him at the door (pechath) of the tabernacle, the HP acting as this gatekeeper. Ezekiel represents Yhwh as returning to his temple through the East gate, after which he controls entrance through this gate (which is where the reconciliation rites in Psalms come into play). This is also related to the Marduk theme in the Babylonian version. You see the theme at work in the NT with the parable of the sheepfold with a keeper of a gate (called a porter in KJV) allowing the shepherd to come claim his sheep (John 10:3).

Interestingly, it is used by Jacob in his great sermon on the atonement, where he says that the Holy One of Israel (a priestly/levitical term) is the keeper of the gate (2 Ne 9:41).

Regards

[bluebell]

Interestingly, it is used by Jacob in his great sermon on the atonement, where he says that the Holy One of Israel (a priestly/levitical term) is the keeper of the gate (2 Ne 9:41).

Regards

I think this is why the story of the tower of babel is so interesting.

The people building the tower to get to heaven, were essentially trying to usurp the power and authority of Jesus by finding another way into the kingdom of God than the 'gate' and without the permission of 'the Keeper'.

[kamenraider]

Paul ascended into the third heaven, and he could understand the three principal rounds of Jacob's ladder -- the telestial, the terrestrial, and the celestial glories or kingdoms, where Paul saw and heard things which were not lawful for him to utter. I could explain a hundred fold more than I ever have of the glories of the kingdoms manifested to me in the vision, were I permitted, and were the people prepared to receive them.

--Joseph Smith, TPJS pgs. 304-305.

D&C 76:77-78

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

Hiram [smith] said Aug 1st [18]43 Those of the Terrestrial Glory either advance to the Celestial or recede to the Telestial [or] else the moon could not be a type [viz. a symbol of that kingdom]. [for] it [the moon] "waxes & wanes". Also that br George will be quickened by celestial glory having been ministered to by one of that Kingdom.

--Franklin D. Richards "Words of the Prophet", pg. 24 ("Scriptural Items"), August 1, 1843, Ms/d/4409/Misc Minutes Collection, LDS Church Archives.

If those of the terrestrial glory "receive of the presence of the Son" and are either advancing or receding, I can see how Jesus Christ might symbolize the middle rung that they would go up and down on.

[J Green]

I think this is why the story of the tower of babel is so interesting.

The people building the tower to get to heaven, were essentially trying to usurp the power and authority of Jesus by finding another way into the kingdom of God than the 'gate' and without the permission of 'the Keeper'.

Agreed. Nice observation. Despite the play on babel as confusion (from heb. balil), the real reference here is to bab ili or bab il ('gate of the gods' or 'gate of god'), which very much has gatekeeper connotations, and definitely puts us into the realm of Jacob's vision of the ladder (a kind of tower). But there's a parallel to another Book of Mormon story here. In short, the tower at Babel has temple connotations and is built to make a name for those involved. If you look closely at the 'make a name' terminology throughout the Hebrew Bible, you find it connected to redemption from bondage over and over. It is a temple theme of atonement, with associations to the divine name used once a year by the HP at the temple. When congregated Israel hears the pronunciation of the word in the context of their release from bondage, they fall to the earth. (See the "I am He" in John for parallels as the Savior pronounces his own divine name after the atonement of Gethesemane to the soldiers who come to arrest him, and they fall to the earth.) But back to Babel . . . The result of this mess is a scattering and confusion of tongues. It is additionally associated with Nimrod's start of the kingdom of Babylon (a kingship rite), soon after warfare with the nations.

Compare this to King Benjamin as the "Anti Nimrod". Soon after a huge war with the Lamanites, right after he encounters another remnant of scattered Israel who experienced their own confusion of tongues, soon after he has read the large stone that gives the account of the Jaredites and their scattering and confusion of tongues at the tower . . .

He builds a tower at the temple to give his people a name. The context is making his son a king and proclaiming atonement to his people (after which they fall to the earth).

That's the short version. I think there are intriguing parallels, and I've been putting together some thoughts on this for an installment on my blog.

Regards