maklelan Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Link here. Not trying to say anything about the Book of Mormon, but I think this kind of stuff is fascinating.
Anijen Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Link here. Not trying to say anything about the Book of Mormon, but I think this kind of stuff is fascinating.It is always very exciting to see new discoveries (anywhere). If I see new Mesoamercian discoveries it will be the first thing I click on even before college football news (that's saying something). I wish more excavations were being done.
gtaggart Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Well the discovery proves one thing: There's still stuff to be found.
Bill Hamblin Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Well the discovery proves one thing: There's still stuff to be found.Richard Hansen, who is quoted in the presentation, and who I believe is one of the leaders of the dig, is LDS. http://www.miradorbasin.com/About/hansen.htm
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Richard Hansen, who is quoted in the presentation, and who I believe is one of the leaders of the dig, is LDS. http://www.miradorbasin.com/About/hansen.htmThen all of what he says is false because he is so biased. Lol.THis is quite exciting.
maklelan Posted March 14, 2009 Author Posted March 14, 2009 Richard Hansen, who is quoted in the presentation, and who I believe is one of the leaders of the dig, is LDS. http://www.miradorbasin.com/About/hansen.htmClearly he's not respected in the field, then.
Garrote Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 Anyone know why the Mayans, now able to link the pre- to the present, but why they are never mentioned in the BoM?They were the dominant culture, people and knowledge for over 2000 years, but no mention.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 Anyone know why the Mayans, now able to link the pre- to the present, but why they are never mentioned in the BoM?They were the dominant culture, people and knowledge for over 2000 years, but no mention.huh??I dont understand what you are trying to communicate.
Joseph Antley Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 Anyone know why the Mayans, now able to link the pre- to the present, but why they are never mentioned in the BoM?They were the dominant culture, people and knowledge for over 2000 years, but no mention.They are mentioned. You must not be reading it very closely.
gtaggart Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 Link here. Not trying to say anything about the Book of Mormon, but I think this kind of stuff is fascinating.Interesting, but you must know more about the find--or the symbols--than is in the video to say this is a discovery of a "Mayan Creation Myth," since they only speak of "cosmic monsters, gods, and serpents," in the video. Does that phrase necessarily lead to the conclusion that the discovery is a "creation myth"? Care to elaborate?
maklelan Posted March 14, 2009 Author Posted March 14, 2009 Interesting, but you must know more about the find--or the symbols--than is in the video to say this is a discovery of a "Mayan Creation Myth," since they only speak of "cosmic monsters, gods, and serpents," in the video. Does that phrase necessarily lead to the conclusion that the discovery is a "creation myth"? Care to elaborate?Those are the main players in the Mayan creation epic.
Cold Steel Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 I was just watching a History Channel episode on the Mayans last night. I've found the arguments made by Book of Mormon scholars about the obsidian swords and the repeated references in the text about swords being "stained" to be very compelling. The show described how the swords were made and how deadly they were. Only a writer who was aware of how the swords were made would know how they could be stained. On an Old World sword, such staining would be highly unlikely; however, on a New World sword it would be virtually unavoidable. As a Latter-day Saint, I'm also impressed by how many of the world's temple ceremonies involved creation scenarios. Much of this in Joseph Smith's day was unknown, but even considering our own temple worship, why is the creation process so integral and why is it so important? Then to see the creation theme found in other cultures' sacred worship makes me realize that Joseph Smith was either receiving it from God, or he was somehow drawing on a universal motif and lucked out (again). The more we learn of the Mayans and Mesoamerica, the more we should be eliminating them and it as the Book of Mormon people and lands if, and I emphasize if, someone just dreamed up the whole book.
cjcampbell Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 They keep showing a carving that looks like a bicycle! Chariot or wagon of some kind?
beastie Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 As a Latter-day Saint, I'm also impressed by how many of the world's temple ceremonies involved creation scenarios. Much of this in Joseph Smith's day was unknown, but even considering our own temple worship, why is the creation process so integral and why is it so important? Then to see the creation theme found in other cultures' sacred worship makes me realize that Joseph Smith was either receiving it from God, or he was somehow drawing on a universal motif and lucked out (again).I'm having a hard time understanding your point. Are you saying that since the temple contains creation scenarios, this is some sort of evidence of JS' inspiration since ancient cultures also have creation stories?I can scarcely believe that's what you really meant, but am having difficulty figuring out what else you mean, given the fact that there is no similarity between the Mesoamerican creation myths, as seen in this beautiful find, and the LDS creation story as seen in temples.
Brant Gardner Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 I was just watching a History Channel episode on the Mayans last night. I've found the arguments made by Book of Mormon scholars about the obsidian swords and the repeated references in the text about swords being "stained" to be very compelling.I confess that I am a hold out on this one. I can't clearly tell if the swords are literally stained for figuratively stained. There is a context where it works literally, but it is just as easily literary. I find it difficult to use this as an argument for a particular type of sword.
mfbukowski Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 As a Latter-day Saint, I'm also impressed by how many of the world's temple ceremonies involved creation scenarios. Much of this in Joseph Smith's day was unknown, but even considering our own temple worship, why is the creation process so integral and why is it so important? Then to see the creation theme found in other cultures' sacred worship makes me realize that Joseph Smith was either receiving it from God, or he was somehow drawing on a universal motif and lucked out (again).Most religious themes involve Jungian archetypes that also describe the evolution of the personality. I think our endowment ceremony can be seen in that light too. Our lives proceed from the natural man (matter unorganized) toward, (hopefully!) order and perfection. Our personal creation of our "selves" parallels God's creation and organization of the world. As we take on successive covenants, paralleled in the temple, we grow from principle to principle. Finally, we "overcome" the world and if faithful, become exalted.
beastie Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 I confess that I am a hold out on this one. I can't clearly tell if the swords are literally stained for figuratively stained. There is a context where it works literally, but it is just as easily literary. I find it difficult to use this as an argument for a particular type of sword.Deane Matheny also argues that there is no evidence of the sword-like macuahuitl from the BoM time periods, but rather the club-like macuahuitl.
Anijen Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Deane Matheny also argues that there is no evidence of the sword-like macuahuitl from the BoM time periods, but rather the club-like macuahuitl.Have they found clubs with obsidian that match BoM times? I was under the impression neither has been found macuahuitl or club that dates to the BoM.
beastie Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Have they found clubs with obsidian that match BoM times? I was under the impression neither has been found macuahuitl or club that dates to the BoM.I don't think that any macuahuitl has been formally identified dating to BoM time periods, but Matheny was referring to the claims of Hamblin and Merrill that the sculpture in the Loltun Cave in Yucatan, dated to 150 BCE-250 BCE shows a macuahuitl. The sculpture is known as El Guerrero (the warrior). Some people have called the object the figure is holding a macuahuitl, but Matheny believes, as do Freidel and Andrews, that the object is really an axe, which is seen in other iconography and is a symbol of Maya rulership.
e=mc2 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Richard Hansen, who is quoted in the presentation, and who I believe is one of the leaders of the dig, is LDS. http://www.miradorbasin.com/About/hansen.htmI know Richard personally, and have chatted with him through the years. The ***ONE*** thing he has emphasized to me is that we are not even in the *beginning* phase of Mesoamerican discoveries and archaeology. THE main problem is how much we are losing to 2 causes... erosion of the monuments and robbers. They destroy all context, and pretty much everything else as well in their wanting loot and gold and things to sell for money.
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