What is a Nephite? What is a Lamanite?

[Olavarria]

Some people ask, "Where can I find the Nephite Exhibit at the Louvre? Where can I see the Lamanite Exhibit at the Smithsonian?" Before people go hunting for "Nephite" or Lamanite" artifacts, DNA and cities, shouldn't we at least define what we are looking for first?

Nephite

1)political affiliation, loyal to the Nephi dynasty,kinda like Saudi, as in ibn Saud. Jacob 1:14

2)believer in the religion taught by Nephi and his descendants, kinda like a Sunni vs Shia. 4 Nephi 1:37

3) a blood descendant of Nephi. 3 Nephi 5:10

Lamanite

1) Anyone who is not a Nephite. Jacob 1:14

2)a blood descendant of Laman. Alma 55:4

[Uncle Dale]

....

Nephite

1)political affiliation, loyal to the Nephi dynasty,kinda like Saudi, as in ibn Saud. Jacob 1:14

2)believer in the religion taught by Nephi and his descendants, kinda like a Sunni vs Shia. 4 Nephi 1:37

3) a blood descendant of Nephi. 3 Nephi 5:10

Lamanite

1) Anyone who is not a Nephite. Jacob 1:14

2)a blood descendant of Laman. Alma 55:4

Both are Israelites -- of the House of Joseph -- evidently through Manasseh -- with unknown

admixtures of other Israelite tribal lineages, and possibly non-Israelite ancestry as well.

In fact, the non-Israelite ancestry could be proportionally so much greater than

the Israelite bloodlines, that Nephites and Lamanites were only Israelites/Jews

in cultural identification. Their DNA might be indistinguishable from Siberians or the Ainu.

That is -- if they ever existed at all.

UD

[jadams_4242]

Both are Israelites -- of the House of Joseph -- evidently through Manasseh -- with unknown

admixtures of other Israelite tribal lineages, and possibly non-Israelite ancestry as well.

In fact, the non-Israelite ancestry could be proportionally so much greater than

the Israelite bloodlines, that Nephites and Lamanites were only Israelites/Jews

in cultural identification. Their DNA might be indistinguishable from Siberians or the Ainu.

That is -- if they ever existed at all.

UD

Of course they exsisted "Her Amun" just showed yu a great technocolor pic pf a bunch of them. Sheeesh!.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Some people ask, "Where can I find the Nephite Exhibit at the Louvre? Where can I see the Lamanite Exhibit at the Smithsonian?" Before people go hunting for "Nephite" or Lamanite" artifacts, DNA and cities, shouldn't we at least define what we are looking for first?

Nephite

1)political affiliation, loyal to the Nephi dynasty,kinda like Saudi, as in ibn Saud. Jacob 1:14

2)believer in the religion taught by Nephi and his descendants, kinda like a Sunni vs Shia. 4 Nephi 1:37

3) a blood descendant of Nephi. 3 Nephi 5:10

Lamanite

1) Anyone who is not a Nephite. Jacob 1:14

2)a blood descendant of Laman. Alma 55:4

I dont know that there is a whole lot more from the text that you could get any more definitions. Well done. Now what?

[kamenraider]

Nephite

1)political affiliation, loyal to the Nephi dynasty,kinda like Saudi, as in ibn Saud. Jacob 1:14

...

Lamanite

1) Anyone who is not a Nephite. Jacob 1:14

...

Where does Jacob mention people who weren't descendants of Lehi, though?

[cinepro]

Where does Jacob mention people who weren't descendants of Lehi, though?

Dang, you beat me to it.

Jacob says, in describing the people:

#

Jacob 1: 13

Now the people which were not Lamanites were Nephites; nevertheless, they were called Nephites, Jacobites, Josephites, Zoramites, Lamanites, Lemuelites, and Ishmaelites.

Where do the non-Lehite people fit into his categories? Did everyone in the land pledge allegiance to a group? Were there no "others" who couldn't care less about the mosaic-law-keeping interlopers and who just went on with their sun-god worshiping lives?

[Bernard Gui]

Don't forget that the Nephites and Lamanites were reunited at the visit

of Jesus Christ, and the later division was political and religious, not

lineage.

Bernard

[Olavarria]

Where does Jacob mention people who weren't descendants of Lehi, though?

It isn't explicitly stated but it is strongly implied.

http://farms.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vo...;num=1&id=3

One tiny example, idolatry. How do Jehovah worshipping "jews" become idolaters?

Answer: Same way they did in the Old World, "others" teach it to them.

You don't worship God one day and then say: "Ya know, Im gonna make up a god, make a statue of him and have him answer my prayers."

[Olavarria]

Where do the non-Lehite people fit into his categories? Did everyone in the land pledge allegiance to a group?

I don't think belonging to a group recquired "pledging allegiance".

Were there no "others" who couldn't care less about the mosaic-law-keeping interlopers and who just went on with their sun-god worshiping lives?

Well, as for sun worshipping others who did care: some of those sunworshippers could have been Nephite(3), converted to Nephite(2) or remain Nephite(1) despite their religious sensitivities.

Or they could have been Lamanite(1) or Lamanite(2).

But your questian was about " 'others' who couldn't care less". They would have to exist. The books Limited Geography demands it*. They would probably be Lamanite(1).

* I understand that you might read the BoM as covering North and South America, but when the longest American journey in the book takes 40days, and that by a lost search party, I doubt it.

As John E Clark pointed out: "The Land Southward could be traversed on foot, with children and animals in tow, in about 30 days, so it could not have been much longer than 300 miles. The 3,000 miles required for the two-hemisphere geography is off by one order of magnitude." http://farms.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vo...um=2&id=376

[Olavarria]

I dont know that there is a whole lot more from the text that you could get any more definitions. Well done. Now what?

Beats me. What would a pot made by someone loyal to the Nephi dynasty look like? What kind of idols would a blood descendant of Nephi make?

[Rob Osborn]

* I understand that you might read the BoM as covering North and South America, but when the longest American journey in the book takes 40days, and that by a lost search party, I doubt it.

As John E Clark pointed out: "The Land Southward could be traversed on foot, with children and animals in tow, in about 30 days, so it could not have been much longer than 300 miles. The 3,000 miles required for the two-hemisphere geography is off by one order of magnitude." http://farms.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vo...um=2&id=376

There is a common misconception here that needs addressing. We have records of how long it took to get from one place to another in the BoM lands- in certain parts. The misconception that one could travel on foot from the most southern of Lamanite territory to the most northern Nephite lands taking only 20-40 days is incorrect. The 20-40 day distance from what I gather is the time it took to go from the middle of the land of Nephi in the south to the city of Zarahemla northward. This would mean that the distance from the middle of the land of Zarahemla to the middle of the Land of Nephi somewhere between 200-800 miles. If we then add on several hundred miles from the middle of the city of Zarahemla from there to the land Bountiful which bordered on the land northward, and also added several hundred miles to the south of the Land of Nephi in the south we would thus exceed a thousand miles which would place the land southward outside of Meso-America.

There is never an instance telling specifically the traveling distance from the land northward into the land southward. We do know that the distance to go from the northern part of the land southward into a part of the land northward was great enough that ships were built for people to journey on into the land northward. This tells me that perhaps several thousands of miles is involved to go from the land southward into the land northward. If it was less than a thousand miles then there really would have been no need to build ships to travel.

The greatest migration in the BoM is at the end of the book when the Nephites are driven from the land southward into the land northward to the upper regions around the hill cumorah. This journey from what i gather takes a very long time and is broken down over a decade or so with the last push from the southern part of the land northward into the regions around cumorah taking around a year or so to complete. This leaves the field wide open as to how distant certain lands really were.