Ezra Taft Benson

[Lamanite]

From another thread I wrote:

Reading from the INDEX of Rise of Modern Mormonism (I've omitted page numbers associated with statements), pg 473:

Some of the more aggressive statements and positions.

ETB charged that civil rights movement was "Fomented almost entirely by the Communists"- Yowzers!

Communists plan "to destory America by spilling Negro blood," -

Accused Martin Luther King Jr. of being a Communist agent - laughable

No true Latter day Saint can be a socialist or a communist- debatable- I call on Dr. Steuss to lead the charge

General Authorities critical of Bensons extremism- Moyle, Lee, and Smith were some of the GA's- understandable

Refused to counter Robert Welch allegation the Eisenhower was a tool of the communists- sad

And all of the sudden...called to preside over European Mission. - Pretty hilarious.

Big UP!

Lamanite

LOAP remarked that he did a remarkable job in Europe.

I just wanted to add that my "hilarious" comment was meant towards the attitude(s) of the Brethren and the interworkings of the 12. At least 3 of them, not including Ernest Wilkinson of BYU, were fed up with ETB's "extremism". DOM, approved of the content of his speeches and then eventually he got pretty fed up too. Perhaps they did want to "banish" him at worst, or give him a "break" at least. Perhaps God spoke in an audible voice to DOM and commanded him to send ETB on a mission to Europe. Either way it's wonderful to see inside the personalities and interworkings of the twelve. And sometimes when personalities collide its a tad bit amusing.

But in the end I agree with LOAP. He did an amazing, remarkable, fantastic job! No matter the reasons for his being there, he held no ill will, and worked towards the development of Kingdom.

Allahuh Akbar!

Lamanite

[usedbookdealer]

From another thread I wrote:

Reading from the INDEX of Rise of Modern Mormonism (I've omitted page numbers associated with statements), pg 473:

Some of the more aggressive statements and positions.

ETB charged that civil rights movement was "Fomented almost entirely by the Communists"- Yowzers!

Communists plan "to destory America by spilling Negro blood," -

Accused Martin Luther King Jr. of being a Communist agent - laughable

No true Latter day Saint can be a socialist or a communist- debatable- I call on Dr. Steuss to lead the charge

General Authorities critical of Bensons extremism- Moyle, Lee, and Smith were some of the GA's- understandable

Refused to counter Robert Welch allegation the Eisenhower was a tool of the communists- sad

And all of the sudden...called to preside over European Mission. - Pretty hilarious.

Big UP!

Lamanite

LOAP remarked that he did a remarkable job in Europe.

I just wanted to add that my "hilarious" comment was meant towards the attitude(s) of the Brethren and the interworkings of the 12. At least 3 of them, not including Ernest Wilkinson of BYU, were fed up with ETB's "extremism". DOM, approved of the content of his speeches and then eventually he got pretty fed up too. Perhaps they did want to "banish" him at worst, or give him a "break" at least. Perhaps God spoke in an audible voice to DOM and commanded him to send ETB on a mission to Europe. Either way it's wonderful to see inside the personalities and interworkings of the twelve. And sometimes when personalities collide its a tad bit amusing.

But in the end I agree with LOAP. He did an amazing, remarkable, fantastic job! No matter the reasons for his being there, he held no ill will, and worked towards the development of Kingdom.

Allahuh Akbar!

Lamanite

What is LOAP?

Where is other thread?

Have you read Benson, or just the commentaries?

By the way--was he a Zionist running dog , or not, given the Birchers anti-zionist reputation?

Thanks.

[Jason]

Did you pay any attention to what Communists did in Europe, Russia, and China? President Benson was right on when he said it's something Latter-Day Saints should have no association with.

[annewandering]

Why does this keep being brought up?

[Lamanite]

I don't know anne....I thought this thread was dead until you added something. Oh wait it was Jason.

Jason,

If you want a discussion.... I could make an argument on how bad democracy is based on the Roman Empire. In fact, I think they were involved in the killing the Son of God, namely Jesus Christ. That's pretty bad...does that make democracy bad?

I don't know if I'd believe the argument, but we can dance if you want.

Was he also right on with the Civil Rights movement?

What about when he indirectly said Eisenhower was a tool of Communism?

Just curious about how many things he was right on about? Maybe the Negro blood statement was right on too?

I will say that when he became Prophet and that mantle fell upon his shoulders, he was everything a follower of Christ and a Prophet of God should be.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[cjcampbell]

I don't know anne....I thought this thread was dead until you added something. Oh wait it was Jason.

Jason,

If you want a discussion.... I could make an argument on how bad democracy is based on the Roman Empire. In fact, I think they were involved in the killing the Son of God, namely Jesus Christ. That's pretty bad...does that make democracy bad?

The Roman Empire was never a democracy. It was nominally a republic, but under the Caesars it was a dictatorship.

Nevertheless, a democracy would be quite capable of killing Jesus Christ.

[Lamanite]

The Roman Empire was never a democracy. It was nominally a republic, but under the Caesars it was a dictatorship.

Nevertheless, a democracy would be quite capable of killing Jesus Christ.

OK so this is like the 15th retraction I've made today. I'm carb depleting and my brain has no fuel to run on. I'm going to take a break until I reintroduce carbs into my diet.

Thanks for the correction....Greeks/Romans, they're all the same. Republic/Democracy...Representative Democracy, illiberal Democracy. Either way, "An Enemy Hath Done This!"

Big UP!

Lamanite

[The Nehor]

The Roman Empire was never a democracy. It was nominally a republic, but under the Caesars it was a dictatorship.

But a dictatorship entirely controlled by Communist agents.

[annewandering]

I thought he did a wonderful job as prophet. When he stopped his politics thing he was a really great guy!

[cjcampbell]

But a dictatorship entirely controlled by Communist agents.

Okay, you lost me completely. Whatever the Romans were, they were not communists.

[annewandering]

Well I cracked up as did my husband. From that I think it was probably a joke.

[thesometimesaint]

I think it is great that the Kingdom can have both the ETB's and TheSomeTimeSaints sitting on the front row of the Chapel together.

[Tribunal]

I think it is great that the Kingdom can have both the ETB's and TheSomeTimeSaints sitting on the front row of the Chapel together.

Agreed!

[The Nehor]

Okay, you lost me completely. Whatever the Romans were, they were not communists.

And that is exactly what the commies want us to think.

Well I cracked up as did my husband. From that I think it was probably a joke.

She got it right.

[John Larsen]

I thought he did a wonderful job as prophet. When he stopped his politics thing he was a really great guy!

Give credit where credit is due, that was Gordon Hinckley. Benson was low functioning during most of reign.

[Deborah]

And we are rehashing this because....

[Deborah]

I will repeat what I said in another thread:

For those who weren't old enough or even born at the time of ETB's talk, you do need to realize Communism was a real threat whose goal was to bring down America, much the same as Bin Laden's goal. We didn't have all those bomb shelters and bomb drills in schools in the 50's for the fun of it. I do not find this talk radical for the time it was given. Elder Bensen didn't become prophet until 18 years later and by that time the failure of Communism was becoming obvious and I suspect Pres. Bensen saw its imminent fall which came in a few more years, so certainly he wouldn't have had a need to speak so emphatically on it.

[annewandering]

I am giving credit exactly where I mean.

The thread is not about Pres.Hinckley.

I lived in Utah at the time and saw quite a bit of President Benson on the media before he became ill. This is when I am referring to. Because of my political views I was most observant and probably more critical than usual so yes I noticed.

God does as He sees best and His works never did cease despite the prophets illness.

[annewandering]

I tend to agree with you, Deborah. It is much easier to understand any man when you look at the context of his time. He did his civic duty as a citizen of the country. He was not a prophet then.

His time as prophet was a time of testimony to me of the calling of prophet and of God's will being done.

[cjcampbell]

I will repeat what I said in another thread:

For those who weren't old enough or even born at the time of ETB's talk, you do need to realize Communism was a real threat whose goal was to bring down America, much the same as Bin Laden's goal. We didn't have all those bomb shelters and bomb drills in schools in the 50's for the fun of it. I do not find this talk radical for the time it was given. Elder Bensen didn't become prophet until 18 years later and by that time the failure of Communism was becoming obvious and I suspect Pres. Bensen saw its imminent fall which came in a few more years, so certainly he wouldn't have had a need to speak so emphatically on it.

Ah, the good old days. Kids today don't remember the Korean War or why it was fought, the bomb shelter drills, Kruschev pounding his shoe and saying, "We will bury you," the terror accompanying the launch of Sputnik, the Cuban missile crisis, and atmospheric A-bomb tests. The last Indiana Jones movie made fun of it, but in those days people really were that afraid of Communism.

[thesometimesaint]

cjcampbell:

The sad part about that time was that the USSR was equally(if not more so) as paranoid as we were. Two nuclear giants armed to the teeth staring across the gulf dark of ignorance just waiting for the other guy to blink. It took another 30 years to realize it but the "Cold War" ended with the Cuban Missile Crises. Both sides finally "got it" that a nuclear war was not winnable.

[ERayR]

Ah, the good old days. Kids today don't remember the Korean War or why it was fought, the bomb shelter drills, Kruschev pounding his shoe and saying, "We will bury you," the terror accompanying the launch of Sputnik, the Cuban missile crisis, and atmospheric A-bomb tests. The last Indiana Jones movie made fun of it, but in those days people really were that afraid of Communism.

And for good reason. If it hadn't been for the ETB's and others in and out of the church and finally Ronald Reagan communisim could have done much more damage to our way of life. All these years after the fact, with The USA sitting as the lone superpower it is easy loose perspective on those times. There was real danger.

[Tribunal]

And for good reason. If it hadn't been for the ETB's and others in and out of the church and finally Ronald Reagan communisim could have done much more damage to our way of life. All these years after the fact, with The USA sitting as the lone superpower it is easy loose perspective on those times. There was real danger.

I believe many have already lost perspective.

[selek]

And for good reason. If it hadn't been for the ETB's and others in and out of the church and finally Ronald Reagan communisim could have done much more damage to our way of life. All these years after the fact, with The USA sitting as the lone superpower it is easy loose perspective on those times. There was real danger.

Which will make the looming wake up call that much more frightening.

Our children and grandchildren have never known true fear, have never faced nuclear annihilation, have never faced a conquering army or truly acknowledged even the possibility of the end of our way of life- and our political crop shows it.

Having failed to learn from history, they are doomed to repeat it.

Does no one else see the invasion and subjugation of Georgia as ominous?

Have the Sudetenland in 1938 and Poland in 1939 been so utterly forgotten?

We have a misty-eyed dreamer and a rabid pack of weak-kneed appeasers in office while forces of darkness are rearming.

Anyone want to take bets on who will be this generation's Chamberlain?

Or who will be this generation's Poland? Could it be Taiwan? Georgia? Israel? There is no dearth of candidates.

Our leaders have practiced appeasement with the North Koreans, the Iranians, the Syrians, and their terrorist puppets for the last five decades. Does anyone believe they will not kowtow to buy peace with a rearmed and resurgent Russian Empire? Or China?

For those nitwits who insist that China would never attack us for fear of harming their economy, let me point out that Japan's largest trading partner in the late 30's and early 40's- by a huge margin- was the United States.

They can- and they will- strike at us if it means becoming the world's newest super power.

Our military is being run-down, both by extended use and political neglect. It will be run-down further in the coming administration as priorities are shuffled to deal with the domestic crisis.

And while we vaccilate and obsolesce, our enemies are rearming.

These are perilous times, indeed.

[LeSellers]

The sad part about that time was that the USSR was equally(if not more so) as paranoid as we were. Two nuclear giants armed to the teeth staring across the gulf dark of ignorance just waiting for the other guy to blink. It took another 30 years to realize it but the "Cold War" ended with the Cuban Missile Crises. Both sides finally "got it" that a nuclear war was not winnable.

I believe there are a couple of errors in your statement.

First, just because you are paranoid does not mean there is no danger. Russia, the empire we know from War and Peace, has a 1500-year history of expansionist aggression. There are many reasons for this, not least of which are these: there is no defensible border on their west, and they do not have free access to the sea (their only coasts being ice-bound most of the year or controlled by others, like Turkey and Japan). The Russian mentality is steeped in paranoia.

They have reason to be. Napoleon was not the first invader, and Hitler is not likely to be their last. They face historically hostile neighbors on all sides: China, Persia, Germany, France, and even the US fought a war against the communists following WWI.

Thus, our wariness in regards to Russia (not just the USSR) is based on fact; theirs towards us is also based on fact.

Second, what I have termed "Evangelical Communism" was (and remains) a potent force in world politics. Russia was the champion of this movement and had shown itself to be very adept at "liberating" people into communism. This has not changed, as we see in Venuzuela and other South American countries today. A partial list of countries that came under communist sway from WWII on includes China, Cuba, North Korea, East Germany, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece (nearly and the fight continues there now), Saskatchewan (province in Canada), and California and Massachusetts . It was not an idle concern, it was real. Totalitarian regimes destroyed huge parts of the earth's people and environment (communists have the worst record on the environment in the world).

Third, while there is a Doctor Strangelovian aspect to nuclear war, it is winnable. It all depends on how willing one is to pay the price of that victory (or defeat). That's why the bomb shelters, and the ABM systems Russia (but not USmerica) installed. Even today, both India and Pakistan are willing to fight with nuclear weapons. They deem them as nothing more than large bombs. They are not stupid, but see things differently from your PoV.

My second point above is why I am so concerned about socialism in USmerica (and the rest of the world). There have been several right-wing dictatorships in my memory, but those of the left have been devastating to their own people and the rest of mankind. The German NAZIs, the Italian Fascists, the Russian Communists, the Chinese Communists, the Korean Communists, the Cuban Communists and more, have killed millions, perhaps billions of their own citizens, started uncounted wars, used GULAGs and "re-education" centers to control not only the bodies, but the minds of people who disagreed with them. They all preached the doctrine of government-controlled utopia, but none ever even came close.

If you wonder why I worry about our freedom, this is a part of it.

Lehi