Origin Of Adam

[SeattleGrunge]

Because I don't talk about it much, I haven't thought about documenting this belief of mine, that Adam was literally born of God then placed in the garden, until last week. I could of sworn that there was something that inferred or said this on the PoGP, but I couldn't find anything. My wife jokingly said, "Are you sure it just doesn't say that in Mormon Doctrine?" She was joking because she knows back in high school (15 years ago) I considered that 'scripture.' Unfortunately, it does say that in there w/o much in the way of references.

So, does anyone think this is possible and have some documentation to back it up?

[CMZ]

Because I don't talk about it much, I haven't thought about documenting this belief of mine, that Adam was literally born of God then placed in the garden, until last week. I could of sworn that there was something that inferred or said this on the PoGP, but I couldn't find anything. My wife jokingly said, "Are you sure it just doesn't say that in Mormon Doctrine?" She was joking because she knows back in high school (15 years ago) I considered that 'scripture.' Unfortunately, it does say that in there w/o much in the way of references.

So, does anyone think this is possible and have some documentation to back it up?

First of all it's "could have" and not "could of" even though they sound the same in slurred speech. I am bringing that up because you can never think deeper than your vocabulary will allow you.

Secondly, the simple answer to your question is yes.

[SeattleGrunge]

First of all it's "could have" and not "could of" even though they sound the same in slurred speech. I am bringing that up because you can never think deeper than your vocabulary will allow you.

Secondly, the simple answer to your question is yes.

Thanks for the correction, I really do appreciate having that pointed out. I say/write things like that all too often and it drives my presidential scholar wife nuts! I'll pass one on myself...that wasn't technically incorrect vocabulary. It is writing text as I incorrectly hear it. Incorrect vocabulary would be not understanding the correct meaning or usage of a word (although you could make an argument I guess that I misunderstood the phrase). I think there is a difference here.

So, any documentation....

[Bee Eff]

Because I don't talk about it much, I haven't thought about documenting this belief of mine, that Adam was literally born of God then placed in the garden, until last week. I could of sworn that there was something that inferred or said this on the PoGP, but I couldn't find anything. My wife jokingly said, "Are you sure it just doesn't say that in Mormon Doctrine?" She was joking because she knows back in high school (15 years ago) I considered that 'scripture.' Unfortunately, it does say that in there w/o much in the way of references.

So, does anyone think this is possible and have some documentation to back it up?

I believe the following excerpt provides sufficient statement to confirm your question

Excerpt from: The Origin of Man By the First Presidency of the Church 1909

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modern, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal offspring of Deity. God Himself is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned, and supreme. By His almighty power He organized the earth and all that it contains, from spirit and element, which exist coeternally with Himself. He formed every plant that grows and every animal that breathes, each after its own kind, spiritually and temporallyâ??â??that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal, and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual.â? He made the tadpole and the ape, the lion and the elephant, but He did not make them in His own image, nor endow them with godlike reason and intelligence. Nevertheless, the whole animal creation will be perfected and perpetuated in the Hereafter, each class in its â??distinct order or sphere,â? and will enjoy â??eternal felicity.â? That fact has been made plain in this dispensation (see D&C 77:3).

Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God.

[Zakuska]

1) Luke 3: 38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

2)

Adam is the father of our spirits, the physical father of Jesus, and is our God

The question has been, and is often, asked, who it was that begat the Son of the Virgin Mary. The infidel world have concluded that if what the Apostles wrote about his father and mother be true, and the present marriage discipline acknowledged by Christendom be correct then Christians must believe that God is the father of an illegitimate son, in the person of Jesus Christ! The infidel fraternity teach

that

to their disciples. I will tell you how it is.

Our Father in Heaven begat all the spirits that ever were, or ever will be, upon this earth;

and they were born spirits in the eternal world. Then the Lord by His power and wisdom organized the mortal tabernacle of man. We were made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal.

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner!

When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a

celestial body

, and brought Eve,

one of his wives

, with him.

He helped to make and organize this world.

He is MICHAEL,

the Archangel

, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken - HE

is our

FATHER

and our

GOD,

and the only God with whom WE have to do.

Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and

will know it sooner or later.

They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, the thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did

not

appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from

its effects,

and therefore their offspring were mortal.

When the Virgen Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was

not

begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family;

and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by

his Father

in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so [p.51] on in succession. I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone. I have heard men preach upon the divinity of Christ, and exhaust all the wisdom they possessed. All Scripturalists, and approved theologians who were considered exemplary for piety and education, have undertaken to expound on this subject, in every age of the Christian era; and after they have done all, they are obliged to conclude by exclaiming "great is the mystery of godliness," and tell nothing.

It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, "it is an immaterial substance!" What a learned idea!

Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven.

Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. -

JoD 1:50-51 (April 9, 1852)

[CMZ]

Thanks for the correction, I really do appreciate having that pointed out. I say/write things like that all too often and it drives my presidential scholar wife nuts! I'll pass one on myself...that wasn't technically incorrect vocabulary. It is writing text as I incorrectly hear it. Incorrect vocabulary would be not understanding the correct meaning or usage of a word (although you could make an argument I guess that I misunderstood the phrase). I think there is a difference here.

So, any documentation....

Well, yeah, it's kind of a vocabulary issue since the wrong word was used, but people do this one all the time based on the similar sounds involved. But, you're right, it's not exactly a vocabulary issue because I'm pretty sure the words "of" and "have" are in your vocabulary. And you rightly discerned that my correction was not a personal attack.

Back on topic, this issue has been discussed here before. Joseph F. Smith was pretty vocal about it. Also, Brigham Young, I think in JD 15:137, stated that exalted beings have power to produce both spirit and body.

[LDSMusic483]

Because I don't talk about it much, I haven't thought about documenting this belief of mine, that Adam was literally born of God then placed in the garden, until last week. I could of sworn that there was something that inferred or said this on the PoGP, but I couldn't find anything. My wife jokingly said, "Are you sure it just doesn't say that in Mormon Doctrine?" She was joking because she knows back in high school (15 years ago) I considered that 'scripture.' Unfortunately, it does say that in there w/o much in the way of references.

So, does anyone think this is possible and have some documentation to back it up?

Moses 6:22 kinda says something along the lines...

22 And this is the genealogy of the sons of Adam, who was the son of God, with whom God, himself, conversed.

As for being "born" I believe it was the Prophet Joseph Smith who said that Adam was born the same as all other human beings were. I'd need to look for that cite though.

[Bee Eff]

1) Luke 3: 38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

2)

Adam is the father of our spirits, the physical father of Jesus, and is our God

I believe your statement here is not very clear. Adam is a term used for God the Father, Christ and Adam the husband of Eve at various points in time. Using the term as you have leads one to the often erroneously claimed Adam-God theory.

[LDSMusic483]

I believe your statement here is not very clear. Adam is a term used for God the Father, Christ and Adam the husband of Eve at various points in time. Using the term as you have leads one to the often erroneously claimed Adam-God theory.

Okay...quick lets just put a plug for not letting AGT take over this thread which was in no way the intent of this thread!

[Zakuska]

I believe your statement here is not very clear. Adam is a term used for God the Father, Christ and Adam the husband of Eve at various points in time. Using the term as you have leads one to the often erroneously claimed Adam-God theory.

I wasn't looking at the Adam God Theory i was pointing to the fact that The being that sired Adam had a celestial body. Yes Adam had a belly button.

[Bee Eff]

I wasn't looking at the Adam God Theory i was pointing to the fact that The being that sired Adam had a celestial body. Yes Adam had a belly button.

Ok, just wanted to clarify.

[Zakuska]

Ok, just wanted to clarify.

No problem the Adam God theory does tend to get people tied up in knots.

[Ron Beron]

First of all it's "could have" and not "could of" even though they sound the same in slurred speech. I am bringing that up because you can never think deeper than your vocabulary will allow you.

Secondly, the simple answer to your question is yes.

To be precise it is reduced speech and is not ungrammatical but simply indicates a less stringent intonation. Aside from that it is never used in writing, only in speech.

[CMZ]

Aside from that it is never used in writing, only in speech.

It is only thought to be used in speech because the correct form and the incorrect form sound nearly identical. The problem is that when people type "could of" it's because they don't know that "could've" is a contraction of "could have," and therefore there is a misunderstanding of the language going on. At least in this case the original poster didn't take my correction as an ad hominem attack or counter with "Stop being so nitpicky!"

[BCSpace]

Because I don't talk about it much, I haven't thought about documenting this belief of mine, that Adam was literally born of God then placed in the garden, until last week. I could of sworn that there was something that inferred or said this on the PoGP, but I couldn't find anything. My wife jokingly said, "Are you sure it just doesn't say that in Mormon Doctrine?" She was joking because she knows back in high school (15 years ago) I considered that 'scripture.' Unfortunately, it does say that in there w/o much in the way of references.

So, does anyone think this is possible and have some documentation to back it up?

That God the Father is the literal father of Adam's physical body? Nothing doctrinal (published by the Church) that I know of. It was BY's opinion (oft mistaken for an "Adam-God" theory) that it was so. However, Jesus Christ is the only begotten of teh Father in the flesh, so this can't possibly be the case.

However, there are some LDS who believe it without any real substantiation imho.

1) Luke 3: 38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Moses 6:22 kinda says something along the lines...

I think the JST puts the kibosh on this one.....

"....which was the son of Adam, who was formed of God, and the first man upon the earth."

Doesn't preclude Adam from being a son of God as per the other verses, but imho, the change prevents Adam from being a son of God in the same way Seth is the son of Adam.

[Tribunal]

Forgive me but I am now confused.

Adam was the physical/spiritual son of God yet Jesus is the only begotton son of God? Jesus was created in the spirit before Adam but Adam was created physically before Jesus? Could this be explained please?

Also, if Adam and Lucifer were sons of God would that make Adam and Lucifer brothers? And, would this make the physical Jesus the great (many generations over) nephew of Lucifer and the spiritual brother of Lucifer?

I need to get some sleep!!!

[zerinus]

Because I don't talk about it much, I haven't thought about documenting this belief of mine, that Adam was literally born of God then placed in the garden, until last week. I could of sworn that there was something that inferred or said this on the PoGP, but I couldn't find anything. My wife jokingly said, "Are you sure it just doesn't say that in Mormon Doctrine?" She was joking because she knows back in high school (15 years ago) I considered that 'scripture.' Unfortunately, it does say that in there w/o much in the way of references.

So, does anyone think this is possible and have some documentation to back it up?

There is no documentation to back that up. The scriptures teach that man was created by the power of the word of God, not through natural intercourse:

Jacob 4

:

9 For behold,

by the power of his word man came upon the face of the earth,

which earth was created by the power of his word. Wherefore, if God being able to speak and the world was,

and to speak and man was created,

O then, why not able to command the earth, or the workmanship of his hands upon the face of it, according to his will and pleasure?

Mormon 9

:

17 Who shall say that it was not a miracle that by his word the heaven and the earth should be; and

by the power of his word man was created of the dust of the earth;

and by the power of his word have miracles been wrought?

The scriptures in fact teach that it was Jesus Himself who created man, which He did as a spirit, before His incarnation here on earth:

Mosiah 26

:

23 For it is I that taketh upon me the sins of the world; for

it is I that hath created them;

and it is I that granteth unto him that believeth unto the end a place at my right hand.

Ether 3

:

15 And never have I showed myself unto man

whom I have created,

for never has man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.

Unless the First Presidency declares something to the contrary by revelation, this is the doctrine of the LDS Church.

zerinus

[zerinus]

To be precise it is reduced speech and is not ungrammatical but simply indicates a less stringent intonation. Aside from that it is never used in writing, only in speech.

It is wrong grammar as well as wrong speech. There is nothing right about it at all!

zerinus

[Jason]

Adam was the physical/spiritual son of God yet Jesus is the only begotton son of God?

Well, Adam wasn't mortal when he was created - he was immortal. And he wasn't begotton of a mortal woman, as Jesus was.

Jesus was created in the spirit before Adam but Adam was created physically before Jesus? Could this be explained please?

Sure.

God created all our spirits before the Earth was created. Jesus was the first born of those spirits.

Adam was the first of those spirits to take a mortal body, and Jesus didn't take a physical body until thousands of years later.

So Jesus is the first born spirit but Adam's physical body was created (and lived and died) long before Jesus' physical body.

Also, if Adam and Lucifer were sons of God would that make Adam and Lucifer brothers?

In fact we are all brothers and sisters in a spiritual sense. Lucifer and Adam are our brothers, but so is Jesus. That's what comes from all having the same Father.

And, would this make the physical Jesus the great (many generations over) nephew of Lucifer and the spiritual brother of Lucifer?

Nephew of Lucifer, no. Lucifer never had a physical body, so he can't be in any part of Jesus' physical lineage. Spiritual brother, yes, but Lucifer is a younger brother (Jesus is the eldest).

[saemo]

There is no documentation to back that up. The scriptures teach that man was created by the power of the word of God, not through natural intercourse:

[Zakuska]

That God the Father is the literal father of Adam's physical body? Nothing doctrinal (published by the Church) that I know of. It was BY's opinion (oft mistaken for an "Adam-God" theory) that it was so. However, Jesus Christ is the only begotten of teh Father in the flesh, so this can't possibly be the case.

However, there are some LDS who believe it without any real substantiation imho.

I think the JST puts the kibosh on this one.....

"....which was the son of Adam, who was formed of God, and the first man upon the earth."

Doesn't preclude Adam from being a son of God as per the other verses, but imho, the change prevents Adam from being a son of God in the same way Seth is the son of Adam.

Where was Adam "Formed"?

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee"

[stn9]

Ron, I loved Groo!

[Notquitewetyet]

Because I don't talk about it much, I haven't thought about documenting this belief of mine, that Adam was literally born of God then placed in the garden, until last week. I could of sworn that there was something that inferred or said this on the PoGP, but I couldn't find anything. My wife jokingly said, "Are you sure it just doesn't say that in Mormon Doctrine?" She was joking because she knows back in high school (15 years ago) I considered that 'scripture.' Unfortunately, it does say that in there w/o much in the way of references.

So, does anyone think this is possible and have some documentation to back it up?

Brigham Young had this to say:

God has made His children like Himself to stand erect, and has endowed them with intelligence and power and dominion over all His works, and given them the same attributes which He himself possesses. He created man, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that ever will be." (Journal of Discourses 11:122-123)

Now, here's the rub. God begot Adam, but Jesus Christ is God's only begotten in the flesh. One way to solve this to conundrum is to realize that our Father and God is none other than Adam himself, but then this brings up the issue of Adam (God) begetting Seth, Cain, and Abel, which would make them begotten sons of God as well. I have heard from some people, that Adam after he fell and before he resurrected, had children as a fallen mortal like Jesus (although Christ did not have a fallen nature to suffer except by his will), but that Adam resurrected himself as Michael and that it was as Michael that he begot Jesus Christ. Of course, this brings up the issue of how a resurrected being can beget physical children. All in all, this is some pretty deep water.

[smac97]

Here are some (gleaned from some anti websites) (emphases added):

"Michael was a celestial, resurrected being, of another world." Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, pg.179-180

"Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another planet, and power was given them to propagate their species, and they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth." -Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 7:, p.286

"Procreation is the key to the origin of human life, so far as the method of its organization is concerned, and transplantation is the key to how man arrived on earth. Having formed a body and placed man's organized spirit therein, the Gods then "put" the man in the garden. Before this, however, seeds had been brought to the newly organized earth and planted to bring forth the garden in which Adam was placed. While repudiating the theory of organic evolution in its explanation of the origin of life, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote of the principle of transplantation as the means by which life was placed upon the earth:" Hyrum L. Andrus, Doctrinal Commentary on the Pearl of Great Price, p.180

"You cannot believe in a God like that, can you? We are transplanted beings. Adam was transplanted. I do not want to get a misunderstanding when I say that. He did not come here a resurrected being. He did not die on some other earth and then come here to die again, to be changed to mortality again, for the resurrected being cannot die. The Lord has told us so in the eleventh chapter of John, in the 63rd Section of the Doctrine and Covenants, in the 88th Section of the Doctrine and Covenants, in other places he has told us-in the eleventh chapter of the Book of Alma, the twelfth chapter of the Book of Alma, and in other places-that the resurrected being does not die." Joseph Fielding Smith, Seek Ye Earnestly, p.279

"Adam was an immortal being when he came. on this earth he had lived on an earth similar to ours... and had begotten all the spirit that was to come to this earth. and Eve our common Mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial world.... Father Adam's oldest son (Jesus the Saviour) who is the heir of the family is Father Adams first begotten in the spirit World. who according to the flesh is the only begotten as it is written. In his divinity he having gone back into the spirit World. and come in the spirit [glory] to Mary and she conceived for when Adam and Eve got through with their Work in this earth. they did not lay their bodies down in the dust, but returned to the spirit World from whence they came." -Brigham Young, Journal of L. John Nuttall, personal secretary of Brigham Young, Feb. 7, 1877 in BYU Special Collections, Lecture at the Veil

"Man was born of woman; Christ the Savior, was born of woman and God, the Father, was born of woman. Adam, our earthly parent, was also born of woman into this world, the same as Jesus and you and I." President Joseph F. Smith, Deseret Evening News, December 27, 1913, Sec. III, p. 7. More recently this statement was quoted in Deseret News: Church Section, September 19, 1936, pp. 2, 8.and quoted in Hyrum L. Andrus, Doctrinal Commentary on the Pearl of Great Price, p.179

"President Young said Michael was a resurrected being and he left Eloheem and Came to this earth & with an immortal Body & continued so till he partook Earthly food and begat Children who were mortal. (Keep this to yourselves). Then they died." Waiting For the Worldâ??s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.247 January 27, 1860

"When our father Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial bodyâ?¦"ibid "Another meeting this evening. President B. Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurected [sic] body &c more hereafter." Diary of Hosea Stout, vol. 2, p. 435, April 9, 1852.

"Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon the earth, When you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobies from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle worlds devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell. Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another planet," Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol 7:, p.286

"Bro. Pratt also thought that Adam was made of the dust of the earth. Could not believe that Adam was our God, or the Father of Jesus Christ. Pres. Young said that he was, that he came from another world and made this. Brought Eve with him partook of the fruits of the earth begat children and if they were faithful and became gods as he was. He told Bro. Pratt to lay aside his Philosophical reasoning and get Revelation from God to govern and enlighten his mind more and it would be a great blessing to him to lay aside his books and go into the canyons as some of the rest of us was doing and it would be better for him. He said his Philosophy injured him in a measure." Wilford Woodruff Journal, Vol.4, p.288, September 17, 1854

In a formal doctrinal pronouncement, the First Presidency of the Church (Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder, and Anthon H. Lund) said that "all who have inhabited the earth since Adam have taken bodies and become souls in like manner," and that the first of our race began life as the human germ or embryo that becomes a man. Improvement Era, November 1909, p. 80

"The first man, Paul declared, 'is of the earth, earthy'(1 Cor. 15:47; D&C 128:14). Adam was the first man on this earth (Moses 1:34). His mortal body was created from the 'dust' of this earth or those elements that belong to this particular planet (Gen. 2:7; Moses 3:7; Alma 42:2; D&C 77:12). Upon his death, his body returned to the 'ground' from whence it came (Gen. 3:19; Moses 4:25)." - Brewster, Hoyt W. Jr. Doctrine and Covenants Encyclopedia. Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, 1996.

"You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle." - Brigham Young, April 20, 1856, Journal of Discourses, 3:319.

"You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe, though it is supposed that it is so written in the Bible. You can write that information to the States, if you please - that I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bibleâ?¦" - Brigham Young at General Conference, October 8, 1854, Brigham Young Papers, Church Historians Office.

"I tell you more, Adam is the father of our spirits. He had lived upon an earth; he did abide his creation, and did honour to his calling and priesthood and obeyed his master and Lord, and probably many of his wives did the same and they lived, and died upon an earth and then were resurrected again; to immortality and eternal lifeâ?¦I reckon that Father Adam was a resurrected being, with his wives and posterityâ?¦" - Brigham Young at General Conference, October 18, 1854, Brigham Young Papers, Church Historians Office.

"The Book of Mormon, the Bible, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price all declare that Adam's body was created from the dust of the ground, that is, from the dust of this ground, this earthâ?¦We hear a lot of people talk about Adam passing through mortality and the resurrection on another earth and then coming here to live and die again...Adam had not passed through a resurrection when he was in the Garden of Eden... "- Joseph Fielding Smith (Tenth Church President), Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1, pp.90-91.

Not exactly a model of clarity, eh?

-Smac

[Zakuska]

Adam wasn't begotten in the flesh. When he was Begotten he was Immortal... and latter fell and became Mortal (ie in the flesh). Christ was begotten from Mortal Mother and so was the only begotten in the flesh.