Pre-adamites

[zerinus]

I haven't taken a survey, but I would bet nickels to dollars that more active LDS today believe in evolution than in the 1970s and 1980s.

That is a dangerous bet! I wouldn't be so sure about that. You are judging us by what you know of other churches. LDS have something that they do not have; it is called the testimony of the Holy Ghost. If you don't have that, you are wondering in the dark, and you don't really know what it is like for someone who does.

zerinus

[ThePhy]

That is a dangerous bet! I wouldn't be so sure about that. You are judging us by what you know of other churches. LDS have something that they do not have; it is called the testimony of the Holy Ghost. If you don't have that, you are wondering in the dark, and you don't really know what it is like for someone who does.

zerinus

Iâ??m with McNabb on this one. I have no idea why you think his ideas derive from other churches. He said LDS.

Try â??Evolution and Mormonismâ? by Stevens and Meldrum, good LDS authors (both scientists, 1 is a bishop). They sure buy into evolution.

[zerinus]

Iâ??m with McNabb on this one. I have no idea why you think his ideas derive from other churches. He said LDS.

Try â??Evolution and Mormonismâ? by Stevens and Meldrum, good LDS authors (both scientists, 1 is a bishop). They sure buy into evolution.

I am sure they do. But I am willing to bet that most LDS don't.

zerinus

[ThePhy]

I am sure they do. But I am willing to bet that most LDS don't.

zerinus

McNabb didn't say most LDS believe evolution, he said more do now than before.

Ask good LDS Phd biologists that teach at Universities (including BYU) if they teach evolution in their classes.

[Freedom]

That's not my job. That's for the modern day Prophets and Apostles to do. And they have been clear and unanimous in teaching that there was no physical death in the world before the Fall of Adam.

Iâ??m not going to argue this point with you, anything I could say has been stated eloquently enough in this same thread.

Are you aware of any models of evolution that do not involve natural selection? And can you have natural selection without physical death?

You are talking about theories that explain the scant evidence. I am talking about working models. The only cross species working models we know of involve intervention, and they are always planed and preconceived on a chalkboard before they are carried out. The evidence suggests evolution, but not how it came to be. It is perfectly reasonable to argue that God intervened to bring life about, and to introduce different organisms over time.

Maybe one day, General Authorities will agree with your unconventional view of Adam and Eve and the Garden. But as of today, they are still all agreed and teaching en force that Adam and Eve were two, literally and distinctly immortal people who lived in a specific, geographical immortal Garden called "Eden".

I never said that this was not the case. Adam and Eve most definantly lived, but the stories in the scriptures are most likely allegorical, taking these people and teaching a gospel message based on true events. The temple version of the events tell a very different story than what you are trying to portray.

[BCSpace]

BCSPace, are you saying that pre-Adamites had spirits but not from God?

I am hypothesizing that yes.

Are you also saying that at some time God started placing the spirits of His spirit-children into the bodies of the first Adamites?

In my opinion, this would not occur in an already living "preAdamite", rather, a homo sapiens would be born with such a spirit and placed (immediately or after a time of physical growth) in the garden.

If this is the case then who were the spirits of the pre-Adamites? Where did they come from? Were these the same types of spirits that inhabit animals?

I would hypothesize that they were a higher order of intelligence animals yes. Equivalent to Dolphin? Chimp? Neanderthal?

The reason why I ask is because this subject came up in quorum a month ago and your answer would have been an interesting response.

Indeed it would have been. It came up in mine recently and while I did not get around to explaining the details of my particular hypothesis, it was found that quite a few of us accept some form of evolution or another. There were none who voiciferously opposed evolution.

Yet another blow to the Internet/Chapel Mormon differentiation hypothesis even if anecdotal. On that subject, the differentiation is really just generational imho.

[BCSpace]

For my part, full blown evolution from single-cell microorganisms.

Then how do you explain the overwhelming complexities of DNA and the lack of explanation of how it works/fits with this theory? There seem to be a lot of missing links that require a significant leap of faith in a theory that was developed by a guy that has kindergarten understanding of cell structure when compared to what we understand today.

I don't see what the problem is.

A lot of predictive genetics was figured out well before there was any info on DNA (think Punnett Squares). Continental drift was postulated simply by looking at world maps well before crust and mantle interaction was understood. etc. etc. In other words there are patterns in nature that give us answers before we understand the mechanisms.

BCSpace, could you also help me understand how you reconcile statements made by Talmage in Jesus the Christ?

I seem to recall this from somewhere. What's your reference?

I do know that Talmadge wrote his opinion (in other nondoctrinal sources) that the record of the earth shows that there was death of plants and animals before Adam.

I also know that one needs to define exactly what is meant by "preAdamite". Are they just animals that look human (my hypothesis because their spirits are not the literal spirit children of God) or are they actual sons and daughters of God (possibly the context or understanding of some early leaders who have spoken out against the notion of the existence of preAdamites).

I apologize again if I seem so obviously ignorant by asking silly questions.

Heck, I'm just trying to see if my hypothesis' and theories can stand the heat.