The Serpent - Dust Shalt Thou Eat All The Days Of Thy Life

[kawikadave]

And I, the Lord God, said unto the serpent: Because thou hast done this thou shalt be cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life

I've been thinking lately about the meaning of this scripture...

Who was cursed?

What was the meaning of the curse?

In Cleon Skousen's often excellent work - The First Thousand Years - Skousen surmises that an actual serpent was cursed and that it had it's limbs removed - or something like that - and was now forced to slither around on the ground. He doesn't mention anything about eating dust, however.

This wasn't satisfying to me. It didn't ring true to me.

However...

The other day in the temple as I heard this scripture I was taken back to a movie scene in the Pirates of the Carribean, of all places. It's the scene where Capt. Barbosa explains the Aztec curse that's befallen them:

Look! The moonlight shows us for what we really are. We are not among the living, and so we cannot die, but neither are we dead. For too long I've been parched with thirst and unable to quench it. Too long I've been starving to death and haven't died. I feel nothing - not the wind on my face nor the spray of the sea, nor the warmth of a woman's flesh.

The sense I had was that Satan and his followers are the ones who were cursed. The curse was that - like Capt. Barbosa - they would not be able to feel or use their senses. They can see us and manipulate us, but they can't have the same experiences we have - the taste of a crisp apple, being warmed by the sun, the joy of a loving embrace, etc. They can see it, but they can't experience it. And they never will.

Thoughts?

[jadams_4242]

I've been thinking lately about the meaning of this scripture...

Who was cursed?

What was the meaning of the curse?

In Cleon Skousen's often excellent work - The First Thousand Years - Skousen surmises that an actual serpent was cursed and that it had it's limbs removed - or something like that - and was now forced to slither around on the ground. He doesn't mention anything about eating dust, however.

This wasn't satisfying to me. It didn't ring true to me.

However...

The other day in the temple as I heard this scripture I was taken back to a movie scene in the Pirates of the Carribean, of all places. It's the scene where Capt. Barbosa explains the Aztec curse that's befallen them:

The sense I had was that Satan and his followers are the ones who were cursed. The curse was that - like Capt. Barbosa - they would not be able to feel or use their senses. They can see us and manipulate us, but they can't have the same experiences we have - the taste of a crisp apple, being warmed by the sun, the joy of a loving embrace, etc. They can see it, but they can't experience it. And they never will.

Thoughts?

Might help with a thought if i had an idea just where this scripture verse came from?

[kawikadave]

Might help with a thought if i had an idea just where this scripture verse came from?

Genesis 3:14

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Also in the Book of Moses.

[revelation]

I've been thinking lately about the meaning of this scripture...Who was cursed?What was the meaning of the curse?In Cleon Skousen's often excellent work - The First Thousand Years - Skousen surmises that an actual serpent was cursed and that it had it's limbs removed - or something like that - and was now forced to slither around on the ground. He doesn't mention anything about eating dust, however.This wasn't satisfying to me. It didn't ring true to me.However...The other day in the temple as I heard this scripture I was taken back to a movie scene in the Pirates of the Carribean, of all places. It's the scene where Capt. Barbosa explains the Aztec curse that's befallen them:The sense I had was that Satan and his followers are the ones who were cursed. The curse was that - like Capt. Barbosa - they would not be able to feel or use their senses. They can see us and manipulate us, but they can't have the same experiences we have - the taste of a crisp apple, being warmed by the sun, the joy of a loving embrace, etc. They can see it, but they can't experience it. And they never will.Thoughts?

I found your research facsinating. Makes the hair stand up on my skin.

In Genesis, Satan is the one who is cursed. Satan is refered to as "the Serpent" in other scriptures. Here in Genesis, he is the snake.

Cleary scripture explains what happens to people who are cursed:

Mathew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

And scripture also very clearly explains that a person who doesn't continue to do everything written in God's law is cursed:

Galatians 3:10 "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them

[Ron Beron]

I found your research facsinating. Makes the hair stand up on my skin.

In Genesis, Satan is the one who is cursed. Satan is refered to as "the Serpent" in other scriptures. Here in Genesis, he is the snake.

Cleary scripture explains what happens to people who are cursed:

Mathew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

And scripture also very clearly explains that a person who doesn't continue to do everything written in God's law is cursed:

Galatians 3:10 "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them

Hi Kerry, I have a question. Is there any scripture aside from NT passages that says the serpent was Satan? I cannot find one.

Edit...ooops...Sorry, from the avatar I thought you were the illustrious Mr. Shirts.

[BCSpace]

Notice in images of Athena that the serpent is upright....

The Colossal Athena Parthenos Statue of Pheidias

Athena Parthenos

....a possible indication of victory (the god, Nike) over and defiance of God from the opposite side.

[Ambrose]

Does anyone see any connection between the culling of man out of the dust, and even the very calling of him dust (" . . . for dust you are . . ."), and the cursing of the serpent with eating dust?

I know that this is a bit of a stretch, but could we draw any sort of line between the curse of the serpent being the very destruction of humanity (Heb. adamah, also meaning dust)?

EDIT: This sounds terribly Gnostic. o_o

[Ron Beron]

Notice in images of Athena that the serpent is upright....

The Colossal Athena Parthenos Statue of Pheidias

Athena Parthenos

....a possible indication of victory (the god, Nike) over and defiance of God from the opposite side.

Notice also the Medusa Aegis on her chest. Here the serpents are not upright. The serpent in the case of Athena is indicative of her wisdom.

The Egyptians had winged serpents and those with legs...

There is even evidence to show that serpents once had legs

[charity's child]

Does anyone see any connection between the culling of man out of the dust, and even the very calling of him dust (" . . . for dust you are . . ."), and the cursing of the serpent with eating dust?

I know that this is a bit of a stretch, but could we draw any sort of line between the curse of the serpent being the very destruction of humanity (Heb. adamah, also meaning dust)?

EDIT: This sounds terribly Gnostic. o_o

very thought provoking!

[BCSpace]

Notice also the Medusa Aegis on her chest. Here the serpents are not upright.

Sure. But here I would note that the Aegis is usually depicted as serpent fringed and I believe that this is what the artist is trying to represent on the statue. The one who carved the metope on the Parthenon was better able to depict the serpent fringed Aegis.

The Egyptians had winged serpents and those with legs...

There is even evidence to show that serpents once had legs

What I find fascinating here is that originally, the Greek Zeus was a serpent god. Thus you have the serpent transformed into a man, the serpent's man, or a religion that worships the wisdom of the serpent rather than YHWH.

[kawikadave]

Excellent ideas.

So, based on many of your comments should I assume that:

1. Satan spoke through a real serpent that lived in the Garden of Eden.

2. The serpent previously had legs and/or wings to move around.

3. The serpent was then cursed by having its legs/wings removed.

If so, how does this curse apply to Satan himself? What does it mean that the serpent or Satan will "eat dust, all the days of they life"? It appears that this curse was applied to Satan himself.

Again, just trying to get ideas on what is figurative and what is literal.

[Ambrose]

Again, just trying to get ideas on what is figurative and what is literal.

I highly recommend investing in this book. It will last you a lifetime.

[Marmonboy]

Flying snakes? Now that gives me the willies.

[Doctor Steuss]

[...]

Thoughts?

IIRC, there's a Rabbinical dilly that looks at the account as representing three types of souls. Eve was representative of the animal soul (that which clings to life and humanity), Adam was representative of the rational soul (that which clings to order and reasonâ?¦ hence his naming of the animals), and the serpent was representative of the vegetative soul (or the materialistic soul). By saying the serpent will eat the dust, it is essentially showing the tendency of such a soul to cling to the material aspects of life (i.e. dust).

Of course, one can throw something into the wheel by pointing out that it states that Adam was formed from the dustâ?¦ perhaps thereâ??s some symbolism there that the serpent must gain sustenance from that which was utilized to create a higher being (that has favor in G-dâ??s eyes). Or maybe the serpent will be forced to never receive the gift man did by being raised above the dust.

Gnosticly and Kabbalisticly yours,

Stu

[Ron Beron]

Excellent ideas.

So, based on many of your comments should I assume that:

1. Satan spoke through a real serpent that lived in the Garden of Eden.

2. The serpent previously had legs and/or wings to move around.

3. The serpent was then cursed by having its legs/wings removed.

If so, how does this curse apply to Satan himself? What does it mean that the serpent or Satan will "eat dust, all the days of they life"? It appears that this curse was applied to Satan himself.

Again, just trying to get ideas on what is figurative and what is literal.

For my two cents (adjusted for the 2008 economy) and given the paucity of OT verification I can't see where the serpent is Satan.

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

IIRC, there's a Rabbinical dilly that looks at the account as representing three types of souls. Eve was representative of the animal soul (that which clings to life and humanity), Adam was representative of the rational soul (that which clings to order and reasonâ?¦ hence his naming of the animals), and the serpent was representative of the vegetative soul (or the materialistic soul). By saying the serpent will eat the dust, it is essentially showing the tendency of such a soul to cling to the material aspects of life (i.e. dust).

Of course, one can throw something into the wheel by pointing out that it states that Adam was formed from the dustâ?¦ perhaps thereâ??s some symbolism there that the serpent must gain sustenance from that which was utilized to create a higher being (that has favor in G-dâ??s eyes). Or maybe the serpent will be forced to never receive the gift man did by being raised above the dust.

Gnosticly and Kabbalisticly yours,

Stu

Stu, you're the man!

[Ron Beron]

What I find fascinating here is that originally, the Greek Zeus was a serpent god. Thus you have the serpent transformed into a man, the serpent's man, or a religion that worships the wisdom of the serpent rather than YHWH.

I am aware that Dionysus was a serpent god, but Zeus? That's a new one. The goat fringe which made up the Aegis was actually Zeus' thundercloud being that Zeus was the thunder god which speaks of some association with the Levantine Ba'al. Medusa was placed on the Aegis later.

It could also be argued that the serpent was actually YHWH and not Satan as is referenced in Numbers.

[BCSpace]

I am aware that Dionysus was a serpent god, but Zeus? That's a new one.

He was known as Zeus Meilichios (easily entreated one or kindly one) and portrayed as a serpent, often an upright one (again in defiance of God's pronouncement).

The goat fringe which made up the Aegis was actually Zeus' thundercloud being that Zeus was the thunder god which speaks of some association with the Levantine Ba'al. Medusa was placed on the Aegis later.

Yes. In the battles against the giants (possibly the YHWH believing sons of Noah) she is often seen extending her aegis over the scene, a symbol of the supremacy of the Zeus-serpent religion.

It could also be argued that the serpent was actually YHWH and not Satan as is referenced in Numbers.

I like a theory that has Zeus-Hera as Adam and Eve and Athena as a reborn Eve. The Giants (kentaurs) before the Flood are often depicted beating one Kaineus (the race of Kain) into the ground, but after the Flood, the Giants, friends of Ares (Seth?), are slaughtered with the help of a resurgent Eve (Athena).

It all goes back to the serpent and Eve is reverenced for listening to it in the garden of the Hesperides (Eden). The lightning bolt of Zeus represents the lighting up of the world with the knowledge gained in the fall. Herakles is Nimrod, the son or grandson of Cush and is the prophet of the serpent's religion. His labors represent the regaining of knowledge brought by the serpent in the garden and the conquering of the YHWH religion after Noah (and the taking of his authority).

In other words, Greek mythology is just the Biblical tale, but told from the other side's perspective and is represented around the outside of the Parthenon.

Just a theory though...

[Ron Beron]

He was known as Zeus Meilichios (easily entreated one or kindly one) and portrayed as a serpent, often an upright one (again in defiance of God's pronouncement).

Yes. In the battles against the giants (possibly the YHWH believing sons of Noah) she is often seen extending her aegis over the scene, a symbol of the supremacy of the Zeus-serpent religion.

I like a theory that has Zeus-Hera as Adam and Eve and Athena as a reborn Eve. The Giants (kentaurs) before the Flood are often depicted beating one Kaineus (the race of Kain) into the ground, but after the Flood, the Giants, friends of Ares (Seth?), are slaughtered with the help of a resurgent Eve (Athena).

It all goes back to the serpent and Eve is reverenced for listening to it in the garden of the Hesperides (Eden). The lightning bolt of Zeus represents the lighting up of the world with the knowledge gained in the fall. Herakles is Nimrod, the son or grandson of Cush and is the prophet of the serpent's religion. His labors represent the regaining of knowledge brought by the serpent in the garden and the conquering of the YHWH religion after Noah (and the taking of his authority).

In other words, Greek mythology is just the Biblical tale, but told from the other side's perspective and is represented around the outside of the Parthenon.

Just a theory though...

Thanks for the further info. One thought though, I think it is more than just a theory given the many parallels between Greek and Canaanite mythology. It is assumed by many that the Greeks borrowed their mythology from the Levantines. A good book on the subject is Babylon, Memphis, Persepolis: Eastern Contexts of Greek Culture, Harvard University Press

[BCSpace]

Thanks for the further info. One thought though, I think it is more than just a theory given the many parallels between Greek and Canaanite mythology. It is assumed by many that the Greeks borrowed their mythology from the Levantines. A good book on the subject is Babylon, Memphis, Persepolis: Eastern Contexts of Greek Culture, Harvard University Press

Thanks. I think that is true especially seeing as how Herkles and Nimrod are so often equated. You have the repopulating of the area after the Flood from a single family (or a tale from survivors of a catastrophic, though more local, Flood if that is your preference) so there should be all sorts connections that are the same or similar.

The book I have read is The Parthenon Code by Robert Johnson

I think you may be less impressed by his credentials and his underlying premise (that Christianity is true). However, I find it quite plausible. And don't worry, I read the more rigorous works as well.

[kawikadave]

For my two cents (adjusted for the 2008 economy) and given the paucity of OT verification I can't see where the serpent is Satan.

Ron, I believe you're a temple attending Mormon. Is that correct?

[sean0scott]

1. Satan spoke through a real serpent that lived in the Garden of Eden.

2. The serpent previously had legs and/or wings to move around.

3. The serpent was then cursed by having its legs/wings removed.

Christ is also the serpent, is he not? Would Satan pose as something righteous to trick somebody?

They couldn't even attempt to shake his hand! How diabolical (pun intended).

[kawikadave]

Christ is also the serpent, is he not? Would Satan pose as something righteous to trick somebody?

They couldn't even attempt to shake his hand! How diabolical (pun intended).

It is interesting how the image of the serpent is used in completely contradictory ways.

[Lightbearer]

I do not think this scripture was cited but it may be of help:

(Moses 4:5-11) "And now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which I, the Lord God, had made. And Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away many after him,) and he sought also to beguile Eve, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world. And he said unto the woman: Yea, hath God saidâ??Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (And he spake by the mouth of the serpent.) And the woman said unto the serpent: We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; But of the fruit of the tree which thou beholdest in the midst of the garden, God hath saidâ??Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman: Ye shall not surely die; For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

From this I conclude that while the serpent was a serpent, it does seem to have some kinship to Satan and perhaps is the first creature to be possessed of Satan (much like the swine which were invaded by evil spirits) it seems the serpent gave Satan his voice to communicate with Eve. So I conclude that the dust eating serpent was the curse of the serpent for his complicity with Satan who had already been cursed for his rebellion.

[kawikadave]

I do not think this scripture was cited but it may be of help:From this I conclude that while the serpent was a serpent, it does seem to have some kinship to Satan and perhaps is the first creature to be possessed of Satan (much like the swine which were invaded by evil spirits) it seems the serpent gave Satan his voice to communicate with Eve. So I conclude that the dust eating serpent was the curse of the serpent for his complicity with Satan who had already been cursed for his rebellion.

So if it is the snake, what dust do snakes eat or did that snake eat? I thought they like cute little hamsters and bunnies.