Bom Bull'sâ??eyes

[Matt Amos]

The topic description for the recent Liahona thread states: If so, would this be another bull's-eye?

That got me wondering...what would be the top five BoM bull's-eyes?

[Chris Smith]

If...and conditionals

chiasmus

Mulek

Irreantum

Land of Jerusalem

[cdowis]

sheum, Paanchi, land of Bountiful

[MormonPeasant]

The Isaiah quotes that match more closely to the DSS than to the KJV.

[maklelan]

I would have to say chiasmus, NHM, Paanchi, and Irreantum. I'm not terribly impressed with Mulek, but I think it's interesting. I do think "land of Jerusalem" is also pretty important. Thanks Chris, I didn't even of that.

[Chris Smith]

I'm not particularly impressed with sheum, and I definitely wouldn't chalk up the use of Isaiah as a point in favor of the BoM. (Quite the opposite.) Irreantum isn't really all that impressive either, but it was the best I could think of off-the-cuff. You guys are right that Paanchi/Pahoran is probably better.

[Doc]

What about Jershon?

Doc

~

[Zakuska]

And Shuel... Modern day Xul?

[John Williams]

Paanchi/Pahoran

Bountiful

Um, can't think of anything else in particular, and these aren't really very strong "bull's eyes."

[Kevin Christensen]

For me it's not bullseyes, but complexes.

First Temple Judaism

Benjamin's discourse as Coronation, New Year, Day of Atonement, Sabbath, and Jubilee, not to mention the interesting fit with newly found Mesoamerican murals.

The Temple Context of 3 Nephi 8-29

Alma's conversion as a Near Death experience, and Alma as showing all the after-effects.

The Book of Mormon as Mesoamerican geography and culture.

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[ssbn623]

My personal bull's-eyes:

The BoM gets the time of Christ's birth correct.

Gets the day of the week of the crucifixion correct.

Gets the hour of the resurrection correct.

Explains why Christ asked, "Why hast thou forsaken me?"

Pretty much pins Christ's birth in the Spring.

and I like the chiasmus.

[Cold Steel]

Oh, that's a hard one.

1. Old World correlations: NHM, the Valley of Lemuel, the "river of water" and Bountiful (ore, harbor, etc.)

2. Chiasmus

3. Mulek (completely undervalued)

4. Metal Plates

5. Mesoamerican Geography

Of all the above, I still believe the witnesses of the Book of Mormon and the restoration of priesthood keys make up the greatest evidence. I'm also impressed at how clearly the Book of Mormon fulfills Biblical prophecy (Isaiah 29).

[Luigi]

Um, can't think of anything else in particular, and these aren't really very strong "bull's eyes."

Especially when one is considering that when you write 500+ pages, you shoot a whole lot of arrows. I'm pretty sure if I'm given several thousand shots, I'll hit a few bull's eyes, even if I'm not aiming very well.

[Matt Amos]

Land of Jerusalem? Would that really be considered a bull's-eye (i.e. something unknownable to Joseph Smith)? Isn't that more of a weak criticism by ill-informed anti's that has been shown to be invalid (similar to the invalid criticism of pre-Columbian cement)?

Why metal plates?

[Zakuska]

Land of Jerusalem? Would that really be considered a bull's-eye (i.e. something unknownable to Joseph Smith)? Isn't that more of a weak criticism by ill-informed anti's that has been shown to be invalid (similar to the invalid criticism of pre-Columbian cement)?

Why metal plates?

The particular term shows up in the DSS and was basically unkown befor that.

[ERayR]

Especially when one is considering that when you write 500+ pages, you shoot a whole lot of arrows. I'm pretty sure if I'm given several thousand shots, I'll hit a few bull's eyes, even if I'm not aiming very well.

Oh great one do you have anything intelligent to add or are you just poking fingers at eyes?

[MatthewG]

I guess I'm less informed than I thought. Can you guys explain some of these to me?

1. Old World correlations: NHM, the Valley of Lemuel, the "river of water" and Bountiful (ore, harbor, etc.)

2. Chiasmus

3. Mulek (completely undervalued)

4. Metal Plates

5. Paanchi/Pahoran

6. Bountiful

7. Shuel... Modern day Xul

Why do these make the BoM bulls eye?

Sorry if someone can explain to some of us less informed.

[Lamanite]

I guess I'm less informed than I thought. Can you guys explain some of these to me?

1. Old World correlations: NHM, the Valley of Lemuel, the "river of water" and Bountiful (ore, harbor, etc.)

2. Chiasmus

3. Mulek (completely undervalued)

4. Metal Plates

5. Paanchi/Pahoran

6. Bountiful

7. Shuel... Modern day Xul

Why do these make the BoM bulls eye?

Sorry if someone can explain to some of us less informed.

If you start with FAIR wiki, make a list of footnotes, and then buy 10 books you'll be on your way. I'm not being sarcastic or condescending. Read a bunch of fair stuff on NHM (us simpletons just say Nahom) then start a thread, to flesh out any conflicts or questions you have. I'll be interested to read a thread on "Paanchi/Pahoran", if you start one.

As to the OP, I know this is not what you wanted but I would say the biggest bull's eye has to do with personal revelation. To the unbeliever personal experience with the divine could be the biggest target for criticisms. For the believer it is the greatest evidence.

My list only needs one bulls eye.

1. God told me so.

Big UP!

Lamanite

PS. #2 on my list is King Benjamin's speech. Couldn't resist

[Calm]

I guess I'm less informed than I thought. Can you guys explain some of these to me?

1. Old World correlations: NHM, the Valley of Lemuel, the "river of water" and Bountiful (ore, harbor, etc.)

2. Chiasmus

3. Mulek (completely undervalued)

4. Metal Plates

5. Paanchi/Pahoran

6. Bountiful

7. Shuel... Modern day Xul

Why do these make the BoM bulls eye?

Sorry if someone can explain to some of us less informed.

Check out Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon at the Maxwell website. http://www.farms.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=8

For #1, #4, and #6, see the chapter on Lehi's Trail

For #2, see the chapter on Hebraisms

For #3, see http://farms.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vo...um=2&id=324

For #5, see chapter on Converging Paths (this chapter also has metal plates and Lehi's Trail stuff

For #4, see chapter on Recognitions

#7 is Shule, see http://mormanity.blogspot.com/2005/02/two-...-of-mormon.html

Here is a good page summarizing quite a few of these and other 'hits': http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml

[LifeOnaPlate]

Especially when one is considering that when you write 500+ pages, you shoot a whole lot of arrows. I'm pretty sure if I'm given several thousand shots, I'll hit a few bull's eyes, even if I'm not aiming very well.

I guess you missed Kevin Christensen's post.

ps- Benjamin's sermon and Alma 32.

[JarMan]

For me the best bull's eye is Ether's description of the secret combination in our day. This has to be coupled with the overall description of secret combinations in the Book of Mormon because of the way in which they are dead on with the ones that exist today. I think this is also one of the most ignored bull's eyes in the LDS scholarly community. (It's tough to talk about this subject without delving into ETB's thoughts on the matter, something which many scholars would like to avoid, imo.)

[MSilva]

My ones:

1. "Ships of Tarshi/ Ships of the Sea (Septuaginta & Masoretic version of Isaiah 2:16). I don't believe that Joseph or anyone around him were concious of these variants in order to put them both at II Nephi 2:16

2. NaHoM

3. Sacred records in Gold Plates

4. Descriptions over Jerusalem land (descend to the desert, caves, land of Jerusalem, etc.)

5. Moses' death according to Alma 45:19

[Brant Gardner]

Especially when one is considering that when you write 500+ pages, you shoot a whole lot of arrows. I'm pretty sure if I'm given several thousand shots, I'll hit a few bull's eyes, even if I'm not aiming very well.

I've recently been through the entire text placing it in as firm a historical context as current history/ethnohistory allows. I found very few stray arrows (the largest number most obviously from the translation). As a text that (as it should) only subtly describes its cultural environment, it not only fits in time and space, but those cultural environments also provide explanatory context in which the actions of the text make more sense.

That is a lot more than 5 bulls-eyes, and much more difficult to do.

[russianwolfe]

Especially when one is considering that when you write 500+ pages, you shoot a whole lot of arrows. I'm pretty sure if I'm given several thousand shots, I'll hit a few bull's eyes, even if I'm not aiming very well.

How many shots do magazine/newspapers like National Enquirer get every year for their end of the year 'prophecy' on the coming year? And how many hit the mark? And they don't cross temporal or cultural context?

The Book of Mormon is not only crossing temporal context (2,600 - 1,600 years) but ancient culture as well!!! The Russians attempted to fake Hitler's Diaries and couldn't do it well enough to fool anyone but the gullible and they weren't crossing the temporal context. (And don't forget their laughable attempt at faking KKK letters to embassies of color in Africa.)

I personally think you need to familiarize yourself with just how alien the cultural of an ancient civilization really is. Then reexamine what the Book of Mormon has done and see the hits in their true ight. Especially when you realize that most of the hits are things that were virtually unknown in 1830.

Marvin

[Chris Smith]

1. "Ships of Tarshi/ Ships of the Sea (Septuaginta & Masoretic version of Isaiah 2:16). I don't believe that Joseph or anyone around him were concious of these variants in order to put them both at II Nephi 2:16

This is the opposite of a bull's eye when you look into it a little deeper.

3. Sacred records in Gold Plates

I've never understood why FARMS wrote an entire book on this. Yes, ancient people wrote on gold plates. Is it so implausible that JS either guessed or was aware of that? When cataloging "bull's eyes", I'd think we should focus on things that JS had a low likelihood of guessing or knowing about.