Paul Ray Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 What's with the Psychology obsession with Love/Sex/Lust?Heh, yeah, really.When I looked at that magazine I thought I saw a woman making a turn while riding a bicycle, or at least expressing the same movement.Where does your obsession with Love/Sex/Lust come from?Make yourself comfortable. I can talk with you for an hour before my next customer client good friend.
RDC Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 Where does your obsession with Love/Sex/Lust come from?Make yourself comfortable. I can talk with you for an hour before my next customer client good friend. Huh? Is this directed at me? I simply looked at the web page and the majority of the covers seemed to address the subjects. Or are you saying those aren't the majority and that I noticed only those issues? I'll be waiting outside when your done with your current customer client good friend..PS. Is psychology really your field of work? I know SquarePeg is in that field. Just curious.No! Nevermind, seriously, Blair (LoaP) is going to kill me!
katherine the great Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 A person appearing as a witness in a U.S. court room raises his/her hand while taking an oath to tell the truth... the whole truth, and nothing but the whole truth... usually while placing his/her hand upon a Bible. Who started that? Where did the fathers of our country get that idea? I have some ideas, but I'd also like to know more about it.Historically, a legal contract had to be witnessed to be valid--especially if one of the parties was illiterate. If a person raises their hand or makes some kind of gesture that is generally recognized by the witnesses as making an oath, this adds credibility to the witness. I think it probably evolved from this. I don't think there is anything more binding about a particular gesture as long as all parties recognize the gesture of the oath. In America, it is the raising of the right hand (if the person has a right hand.)
Paul Ray Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 Huh? Is this directed at me? I simply looked at the web page and the majority of the covers seemed to address the subjects. Or are you saying those aren't the majority and that I noticed only those issues? I'll be waiting outside when your done with your current customer client good friend..Okay, you can come in now. My other friend had to step out for a minute, and I can squeeze you in.As I recall, you were the one who asked what's with the Psychology obsession with Love/Sex/Lust, after HiJolly directed you to a particular issue of the Psychology Today magazine with a cover featuring a woman who had her arm raised in a certain position, which I thought indicated that she was riding a bicycle?Did you see that cover, or were you just too busy thinking Psychology has some kind of obsession with Love/Sex/Lust? Please elaborate on why you came to that conclusion, as well as your ideas on what you saw when you looked at that particular magazine that HiJolly was talking about.Just take your time, and relax. I'd like to know what you think. PS. Is psychology really your field of work? I know SquarePeg is in that field. Just curious.Yes, but the good news is that you won't have to pay me any money for this session. I don't charge people any money for just listening to them.No! Nevermind, seriously, Blair (LoaP) is going to kill me!Do you often get the idea that people want to kill you?Please elaborate.How long have you felt this way?
LifeOnaPlate Posted April 15, 2008 Author Posted April 15, 2008 Take the sex/psychology to another thread, Paul my friend.
HiJolly Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 As I recall, you were the one who asked what's with the Psychology obsession with Love/Sex/Lust, after HiJolly directed you to a particular issue of the Psychology Today magazine with a cover featuring a woman who had her arm raised in a certain position, which I thought indicated that she was riding a bicycle?Did you see that cover, or were you just too busy thinking Psychology has some kind of obsession with Love/Sex/Lust? Please elaborate on why you came to that conclusion, as well as your ideas on what you saw when you looked at that particular magazine that HiJolly was talking about.Paul Ray, ROFL! Did anyone notice who the woman is? None other than the famous (or infamous) Madonna! (speaking of sex) And yes, she's actually pictured giving a 'sign'. No, she didn't learn it in an LDS temple, but via the Kabballist group she studies with. A couple of Jewish brothers name of Berg, IIRC. HiJolly
RDC Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 As I recall, you were the one who asked what's with the Psychology obsession with Love/Sex/Lust, after HiJolly directed you to a particular issue of the Psychology today magazine with a cover featuring a woman who had her arm raised in a certain position, which I thought indicated that she was riding a bicycle?Did you see that cover, or were you just too busy thinking Psychology has some kind of obsession with Love/Sex/Lust? Please elaborate on why you came to that conclusion, as well as your ideas on what you saw when you looked at that particular magazine that HiJolly was talking about.The page was full of covers, and it took a while to scroll down to try to find the obscure cover (the years aren't mentioned unless you hover over the image, and it didn't just jump out at me). But don't tell me that's not exactly what the editors of the magazines were trying to accomplish in putting several of those covers out. They got the reaction they were out to get, they got attention.Do you often get the idea that people want to kill you?Please elaborate.How long have you felt this way? Do you know Blair? I mean, haven't you read his posts. The guy is a loose cannon, who knows what he might do! I'm thinking of soliciting some protection from the UMW.Seriously, I started laughing out loud. It's a good thing I'm in an office, or people might start to wonder what I'm laughing at. Not that I have some complex about people wondering what I'm doing...
Paul Ray Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 Historically, a legal contract had to be witnessed to be valid--especially if one of the parties was illiterate. If a person raises their hand or makes some kind of gesture that is generally recognized by the witnesses as making an oath, this adds credibility to the witness.Yes, I know people believed and still believe a gesture adds credibiilty to a witness.I think LOaP is interested in knowing why? Why the need for a gesture?Why isn't signing on the dotted line enough to indicate that a person will do what they say?You said something about this being historical, but can you give any more details than that?When do you think people first started using handshakes and a raised arm to show validity?I can easily see they did, and still do that. When and why do you think it started, and why do you think we still do that?
Paul Ray Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 The page was full of covers, and it took a while to scroll down to try to find the obscure cover (the years aren't mentioned unless you hover over the image, and it didn't just jump out at me). But don't tell me that's not exactly what the editors of the magazines were trying to accomplish in putting several of those covers out. They got the reaction they were out to get, they got attention.Hmm. I see.Well, I think that will have to do for the moment. My other friend just came back in and doesn't want me to derail his thread.I would like to see you again sometime very soon, though.I think we have a lot to talk about. Do you know Blair? I mean, haven't you read his posts. The guy is a loose cannon, who knows what he might do! I'm thinking of soliciting some protection from the UMW.Uh huh. Hmm. Okay.Well, as I said, I would like to continue this, later.Until then, take care of yourself. Seriously, I started laughing out loud. It's a good thing I'm in an office, or people might start to wonder what I'm laughing at. Not that I have some complex about people wondering what I'm doing...Hmm. Okay. At least you don't seem to have any problems with confidence.That is a good thing.Oh, one last thing before you go.Please raise your hand if you think you will be safe until we can talk again later.Who knows, that may actually do something to help you.I would offer you my hand for a handshake but that's kinda hard to do over the internet.Anyway, until next time. Take care.
katherine the great Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 When do you think people first started using handshakes and a raised arm to show validity?I can easily see they did, and still do that. When and why do you think it started, and why do you think we still do that?When did people first start touching each other? I don't think anybody really knows the answer to the very first practice of these things, but if we look at it logically, I think handshaking is more of a western custom since people in the far east bow. Holding a hand up high probably came from the necessity for the crowd to see that the person is holding up their hand to make an oath to God or King. It is a gesture that can be recognized from a distance.
ERMD Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 I think Adam may have been taught something like it.Just a hunch.
Ardith Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 Here's some interesting stuff:Dexiosis and Dextrarum Iunctio:The Sacred Handclasp in the Classical and Early Christian Worldhttp://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?fi...p;type=cmV2aWV3Oaths-arm positionshttp://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~rs002/Images/Christian/galla.jpghttp://www.christusrex.org/www1/lviv/Gallery/Pictures/6.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-002-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-010-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-012-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-011-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-009-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...re/m0650tol.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...re/m0652tol.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...re/m0651tol.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/Fra.../m0172ami-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/Fra...-port-021-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/Fra...5sp98-947-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/Fra...-port-016-s.jpg
SquarePeg48 Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 Why do we have physical gestures associated with important covenants? Of course, the obvious reason is that God commanded it, but there seems to be a deeper psychological reality. Performing a physical act in combination with mental process or promise seems to have a very deep impact on the human psyche. Perhaps it is just the idea that the neurons are firing not just with the thought but with the physical action associated? In any case, I can think of a number of instances that I have experienced that surprised me with the depth of the impact that occurred by putting physical action together with mental/spiritual determination.
katherine the great Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 Why do we have physical gestures associated with important covenants? Of course, the obvious reason is that God commanded it, but there seems to be a deeper psychological reality. And the fact that it is fairly universal. The actions may vary, but the meaning is the same.
Paul Ray Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 Here's some interesting stuff:Dexiosis and Dextrarum Iunctio:The Sacred Handclasp in the Classical and Early Christian Worldhttp://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?fi...p;type=cmV2aWV3Oaths-arm positionshttp://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~rs002/Images/Christian/galla.jpghttp://www.christusrex.org/www1/lviv/Gallery/Pictures/6.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-002-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-010-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-012-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-011-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...-port-009-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...re/m0650tol.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...re/m0652tol.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/fra...re/m0651tol.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/Fra.../m0172ami-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/Fra...-port-021-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/Fra...5sp98-947-s.jpghttp://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/Fra...-port-016-s.jpgSome of these don't work for me. I get a message stating I may not have the proper credentials.I find that interesting.... as if I need a password or something.
LifeOnaPlate Posted April 15, 2008 Author Posted April 15, 2008 Thanks, Ardith. *some of the links also do not work for me. Only the first few do. It seems the url's are still truncated in the address bar (including ellipses instead of the full url). Square, excellent point as well. I wonder if there have been studies on the psychological impact of movement in ritual, etc.I'll search JSTOR. If anyone else is aware of sources, keep em coming.
Paul Ray Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 I wonder if there have been studies on the psychological impact of movement in ritual, etc.I'm thinking HiJolly was alluding to that idea by his reference to a particular Psychology Today magazine.From my experience, I can confirm the idea that physical gestures do have an emotional impact.
katherine the great Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 I'm thinking HiJolly was alluding to that idea by his reference to a particular Psychology Today magazine.From my experience, I can confirm the idea that physical gestures do have an emotional impact. As does every yoga instructor on the planet.
Paul Ray Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 As does every yoga instructor on the planet.Heh, another good point, but I was referring to those particular physical gestures have a particular emotional impact.... you know, the ones we (LDS) use which other people also use, for some reason, beginning, oh, I don't know, a long, long time ago.I've seen physical evidence that shows the Egyptians used those gestures, but I don't know about much that shows anything before that... other than our own words and gestures, I mean.
SquarePeg48 Posted April 15, 2008 Posted April 15, 2008 Heh, another good point, but I was referring to those particular physical gestures have a particular emotional impact.... you know, the ones we (LDS) use which other people also use, for some reason, beginning, oh, I don't know, a long, long time ago.I've seen physical evidence that shows the Egyptians used those gestures, but I don't know about much that shows anything before that... other than our own words and gestures, I mean.Hmmm....Nibley and the connection between ancient Egyptians and the temple practices? Cool, I hadn't thought of that in regard to this particular discussion. As time goes on and I learn more about the actual physiological responses in the brain, I am more and more impressed with the kinds of symbols and rituals the Lord has outlined. The human brain is so marvelously responsive chemically and electrically to particular stimuli that the ordinances and rituals of the church are so perfectly able to effect...even things that happen to us only once are able to make a deep kind of impression in the brain, far more than just seeing, hearing or doing an action one time ordinarily would. It is interesting that the rituals of the Lord's church also address the styles all kinds of learners: visual, auditory, and kinesthetic.
Hammer Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 I don't view the raising of hands as some sort of magic spell move or something. Clearly the mental assent aspect is more important and encompasses the physical movement. I find it interesting, however, that there is a physical component to the process.Being an old Perry Mason fan I noticed that all the witnesses were required to make a covenant of sorts by raising a hand while placing the other on the bible. I believe it is some kind of sign--made by a right angle which signifies in symbolism--square dealings or truthful and honorable swearing.
katherine the great Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Being an old Perry Mason fan I noticed that all the witnesses were required to make a covenant of sorts by raising a hand while placing the other on the bible. I believe it is some kind of sign--made by a right angle which signifies in symbolism--square dealings or truthful and honorable swearing.Like the mason's square. I think this concept goes back to the first architect's tool kit. The compass and the square make a sturdy, worthy structure.
kamenraider Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Kabbalah also teaches this form, see Psycology Today, Sep-Oct issue 1999 (look at the cover about half-way down the web page). HiJollyHere's a better pic of it:
kamenraider Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 I had a priests quorum advisor that taught us that one's arm raised to the square actually acts as an antenna to receive God's power.
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