Do We Believve God's Love Is Conditional Or Unconditional?

[mbh26]

Russell M. Nelson, â??Divine Love,â? Ensign, Feb 2003, 20

"While divine love can be called perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal, it cannot correctly be characterized as unconditional."

Now what?

The seminary manual I studied from asl.

What can you do to make God love you more? Answer, "Nothing, God's love is unconditional?

I didn't agree with that then and I don't agree with it now, but that was clearly what was taught in the LDS Church growing up. If the Brethren new different they certainly didn't say so at the time. Was it not an important enough issue? Why didn't they correct that?

They didn't correct it because 90% of the truths revealed from Salt Lake come out of a political necessity, not just because we're seeking to learn more about God. Every time they say something they consider how it will effect growth, income, and membership retention in the Church.

[SquarePeg48]

The only reason I'm commenting here and thus risk being compared to Nehor (as per Elder Nelson's talk prev. referenced) is that this is a topic where I have received direct, personal revelation from God.

I am actually in agreement with Elder Nelson for the most part, looking at his comments from the psychological and institutional viewpoint. I just regret that many look to his comments as a personal comment, rather than institutional. Elder Nelson and everyone else speaking in Conference CANNOT ignore the responsibility they have to teach and expound from that POV. It is their stewardship.

The outer Church and the inner, the Church and the Gospel, these must be considered when we contemplate these things. IMO. In the past, GA's have said in conference that the Church and the Gospel are two different things. It's been a long time since then, as best as I know, and I doubt it will be repeated anytime soon, due to the weakness of the Church members. Much is done by necessity to accommodate that weakness.

On a positive note, the outer Church is nonetheless TRUE. A beautiful blessing to the peoples of the world, if we can only see it for what it is.

HiJolly

Thank you, HiJolly. THis is perhaps why I have had such a difficult time with this topic--I do know that the evidences of God's love, blessings and comfort, are conditional upon my willingness to accept and to submit to His will, and upon my best efforts (however poor that may be). However, I, too, have experienced some powerful and deeply personal revelations on this matter that seem to be somewhat more complex than what is easily explainable. I also am grateful for the truth of the Church, and the depth and beauty of the Gospel (yes they are separate things), and I know that Elder Nelson was not teaching something untrue--neither were the other brethren teaching untruth. Like many truths in the gospel and the church, there is much that is paradoxical and complex about understanding God's love.

[staccato]

How does God's love manifest itself to the human who is actively breaking God's will?

[RDC]

What about you linquists out there? What is the difference between "unconditional" and "perfect"?

God's love is perfect, that I believe is agreed upon (Lectures on Faith) but it's ovbious from the scriptures and apostles that it is also conditional. Can the two terms coexist?

I am amazed at how some of you cannot see the forest through the trees, as it were. Elder Nelson's article (was not given during General Conference, not that it matters, it is still a truth taught from an apostle, regardless if it was given at a podium or not) is strongly based in scriptural proof.

So instead of trying to reconcile yourselves to the scriptures, you are trying to justify your personal views, because of preconceived notions or prior acts, to convince yourselves you are right. It's not that He doesn't love us all with some degree, He loves those who obey Him, more.

[Ihearya]

The seminary manual I studied from asl.

What can you do to make God love you more? Answer, "Nothing, God's love is unconditional?

I didn't agree with that then and I don't agree with it now, but that was clearly what was taught in the LDS Church growing up. If the Brethren new different they certainly didn't say so at the time. Was it not an important enough issue? Why didn't they correct that?

They didn't correct it because 90% of the truths revealed from Salt Lake come out of a political necessity, not just because we're seeking to learn more about God. Every time they say something they consider how it will effect growth, income, and membership retention in the Church.

Or, they are just being "prudent" for the times they live in. There are things being said right now that look at the greater good. I am not sure about your "income" statement (no pun intended) above. What income? Church income? What is the Church income? Who makes what? I suppose there are living allowances and generous salaries for those who work full time for the Church but I doubt anyone is getting rich off of it.

How does God's love manifest itself to the human who is actively breaking God's will?

Like Paul or like an evil person? As far as I know the wicked will be destroyed. NO if or buts about it.

What about you linquists out there? What is the difference between "unconditional" and "perfect"?

God's love is perfect, that I believe is agreed upon (Lectures on Faith) but it's ovbious from the scriptures and apostles that it is also conditional. Can the two terms coexist?

I am amazed at how some of you cannot see the forest through the trees, as it were. Elder Nelson's article (was not given during General Conference, not that it matters, it is still a truth taught from an apostle, regardless if it was given at a podium or not) is strongly based in scriptural proof.

So instead of trying to reconcile yourselves to the scriptures, you are trying to justify your personal views, because of preconceived notions or prior acts, to convince yourselves you are right. It's not that He doesn't love us all with some degree, He loves those who obey Him, more.

Answer: It's a conditional perfect love.

[Duncan]

OK. "Matt 25:41-46

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: "

This is referring to the final judgement long after we have left mortality. By then we have been given chances to show our love to a God who loves us. To me Elder Nelson is saying that God loves us regardless of our loving him, so love is conditioned on us loving him. God loves us thats it, what is not known is whether we love him-Again "if ye love me keep my commandments"

[LifeOnaPlate]

<---still wondering why ihearya has not addressed any of my posts here.

[Ihearya]

OK. "Matt 25:41-46

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: "

This is referring to the final judgement long after we have left mortality. By then we have been given chances to show our love to a God who loves us. To me Elder Nelson is saying that God loves us regardless of our loving him, so love is conditioned on us loving him. God loves us thats it, what is not known is whether we love him-Again "if ye love me keep my commandments"

This is also referring to God's conditional love in and outside mortality.

[Ihearya]

<---still wondering why ihearya has not addressed any of my posts here.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Any of my posts in the thread?

[Ihearya]

Perhaps the issue is not in God's unconditional love for us as much as it is our conditional love for Him.

Yes. Or only remembering Him when the boat is sinking and not being grateful for having a pulse every morning. I think you're right on, LOAP.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Yes. Or only remembering Him when the boat is sinking and not being grateful for having a pulse every morning. I think you're right on, LOAP.

"Only when the sun is shining, the money is rolling in, the work is sparse, and the tide is good does God love my soul."