How Wide The Gap

[Son]

Nonsense.

I predict that you could not even move a bread crumb with your mind (unless by using your body like us atheists). Yet, you sound like you think you could fly.

You don't know me very well. Do you.

And you mis- characterized what my response was to your basement. I never said that I astral project, nor did I into your basement.

Re- read the comment, I was using the metaphor of your basement as a representation of what I feel someones soul must be like that does not believe in his Heavenly Father.

Moving things on the other hand takes very little effort and concentration. It is a childs game of pretending to have power unless to do the work of God.

The real power is in ones ability to love unconditionally, overcoming sin. He who conquers his own weaknesses, is greater than he who rules the world.

There were those that saw Moses part the red sea and still did not believe, there were those that saw Enoch move mountains and still DID not BELIEVE.

Why would you be any different if you saw lowly me move a bread crumb. You would say it was the wind............ye of little faith......

[grego]

I wonder if Jesus charged for his wisdom.

Also, why didn't he mention this miracle of tapping on the body's energy points for healing?

Tarski,

You know, you could ask him. Or, I'll ask him for you, but you'll have to give me $100. Do you really "wonder"? Yaaaaah....

Why didn't he talk about a billion other things that inquiring minds want to know?? Maybe, he had a few things to say that were more important...?

Ok, I guess that means you really don't want to swallow the red pill.

Let me know, unless it would be like this:

Why would you be any different if you saw lowly me move a bread crumb. You would say it was the wind............ye of little faith......

If someone you know is willing to partcipate, we can give it a shot. What do you say? But there will be a price--not money, though...

[Sethbag]

Heh-heh... as another critic steps in to say amen Tarski!!! And the rest remain silent...

If it helps.... AMEN TARSKI. I too have seen the hand-waving "woo woo" stuff getting higher and deeper in here lately than usual.

[LifeOnaPlate]

If it helps.... AMEN TARSKI. I too have seen the hand-waving "woo woo" stuff getting higher and deeper in here lately than usual.

I'm new so I can't really sound off on it.

[Hawkmoon]

Of course, you haven't given your opinion on the topic either. (heh heh).

Perhaps you are a fan of something on the list?

No... just you! AMEN TARSKI!!!

[Jolard]

Count me in as a "rational" LDS. I usually lurk here instead of post, mostly because it is tiring to be one of the few voices for rational thinking on the LDS side.

1. The Secret is dangerous bunk. LDS should be wary of it, since we are always taught to prepare for the worst, not banish any such thoughts from your mind. What about food storage, staying out of debt etc.

2. Astral plane? Bunk. There is a spiritual realm, I have no doubt of it, but that is not what is considered the astral plane.

3. Evolution is likely true. That does not discount Adam and Eve, but it does make the whole "no death before the fall" thing a little more difficult.

4. Atoms and molecules with little spirits? Never heard of that. Must have watched too much Star Wars with their Mitochlorians.

5. No problem with Noah possibly being a real person, although personally I see him as more of a metaphor. That said, Global Flood? Never.

6. Quantum healing. Bunk. Never. Spiritual healing? Occasionally, although I think it happens far less than many members and other Christians seem to believe.

7. ESP? Bunk. Not one proper experiment has ever found a correlation greater than chance. Now prayer? Between us an our Heavenly Father? Sure, but ESP between individuals on this Earth is not happening yet.

8. Astral Travel. Bunk. Vivid dreams and vivid imaginations. Plus this seems like a dangerous thing to believe in as an LDS member. Leaving your body as an empty shell while traveling as a spirit? Doesn't seem like a smart thing to do, even if it was possible.

9. Assume you mean Out of Body experience, not Order of the British Empire . See above.

10. Quantum Healing/Fields = Spirit - Bunk. There are quantum effects, but they have nothing to do with the spirit. "Quantum" is used as a happy shorthand by many believers in bunk, because they think that no-one understands it very well, so they can shoe horn it into any belief they want.

11. New World Order - Bunk. There is no small secret cabal ruining our lives. They are out in the open leading our government right now

12. Dowsing - Bunk. This is like believing in Witchcraft or the evil eye.

13. Three Nephites. If we believe the BOM, it looks like they might be still around in some form. HOWEVER..... It seems to me that they would have better things to do than help out random people with broken cars. Ridiculous faith promoting stories.

Hope that helps. By the way, I am a believing LDS member, active, but I also have a brain that the Lord gave me, and I try and use it often. Joseph Smith would be proud.

You don't elevate yourselve by insulting other LDS and you don't stay on the board if that is what you need to do. ~ Mods

[Paul Ray]

Paul Ray,

Good luck negotiating with Tarksi--last time we made a deal (a year ago?--sorry, it's been so long I've forgotten), he still owes a reading I'm sure he hasn't gotten far on...

Actually, I've now lost interest in trying to acquire Tarski's life.

Not that Tarski doesn't have value and/or a lot of potential.

But the collective isn't desparate, you know.

I'll now wait until Tarski is sincerely interested enough to take it up with my Boss.

I would just be a middle man, anyway, so I wouldn't get a lot out of it, personally.

[Paul Ray]

You and Paul both seem to have difficulty understanding English. If I say I am willing to bet life and limb that nothing on that list is real that does not mean I owe Paul Ray my life. It only makes sense in a situation where my life did depend on whether one of those things was true. But it doesn't.

What do you want me to do? Let Paul Ray or Son give some false and silly proof of one of those things and then have to tediously point it out that the proof didn't work while they insist that it did and that I must now kill myself or something dumb like that?

Go ahead and prove any of it if you can. All the stuff on the list has been tested in a controlled way and it fails. if it makes you feel better, let me point out that I know how to astral travel. I just realize it isn't real.

I have tried all sorts of stuff and it either didn't work or only seemed to until futher skeptical tests could be made.

So I have tried many things, skeptics have tested this stuff (they tried it).

People who believe in it have been tested.

Someone, (Son?) even tried to remote view my basement and failed. That should have ended that.

You seem to have missed the idea.

You said you were willing to bet your life that everything on your list was false, or something to that effect... and I can find your exact words for you, if you'd like me to... , and I then tried to get you down to only one item on your list, saying that I could help provide proof that it is true if you followed through on your bet.

... except that I want you to give your life first, instead of giving you what I have without you doing or giving me anything to begin with.

That's the deal I was trying to negotiate with you, but as I said, I've lost interest.

You'll now need to talk directly to my Boss or find another agent... and believe me, there are plenty of other agents out there looking for work.

[Son]

You seem to have missed the idea.

You said you were willing to bet your life that everything on your list was false, or something to that effect... and I can find your exact words for you, if you'd like me to... , and I then tried to get you down to only one item on your list, saying that I could help provide proof that it is true if you followed through on your bet.

... except that I want you to give your life first, instead of giving you what I have without you doing or giving me anything to begin with.

That's the deal I was trying to negotiate with you, but as I said, I've lost interest.

You'll now need to talk directly to my Boss or find another agent... and believe me, there are plenty of other agents out there looking for work.

Is that why you converse with unbelievers? In order to convert or bring them into the fold?

Am I mis interpreting your post?

[Paul Ray]

Is that why you converse with unbelievers? In order to convert or bring them into the fold? Am I mis interpreting your post?

Yes. You misinterpreted my post.

I was conversing with Tarski because I was trying to capitalize on Tarski's offer, and then I became uninterested in Tarski's offer.

I'm still willing to talk to Tarski, and all the rest of you "unbelievers", on my own terms when I want to, however, I will only try to convert you if you can somehow get me interested.

[Son]

Yes. You misinterpreted my post.

I was conversing with Tarski because I was trying to capitalize on Tarski's offer, and then I became uninterested in Tarski's offer.

I'm still willing to talk to Tarski, and all the rest of you "unbelievers", on my own terms when I want to, however, I will only try to convert you if you can somehow get me interested.

That's what I thought, its all about you.

[Paul Ray]

That's what I thought, its all about you.

Pffftt, well, YEAH!!!

I am getting to know other people, including God, because that's what I want to do.

You can go do something else if you want to, and I really... REALLY... won't mind.

[Severian]

8. Astral Travel. Bunk. Vivid dreams and vivid imaginations. Plus this seems like a dangerous thing to believe in as an LDS member. Leaving your body as an empty shell while traveling as a spirit? Doesn't seem like a smart thing to do, even if it was possible.

Yes, but is there any quicker way to get to New Jersey?

[Son]

Pffftt, well, YEAH!!!

I am getting to know other people, including God, because that's what I want to do.

You can go do something else if you want to, and I really... REALLY... won't mind.

Wow, you know how to make a brother feel welcome.

[Paul Ray]

Wow, you know how to make a brother feel welcome.

It's all about you, Son. What do YOU want to do?

As far as I'm concerned, you are now welcome to stay.

edit: and btw, in the future, please use some Kleenex to blow your nose.

That pink thing has been around a while and I don't think it has ever been washed.